tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post115425947025168068..comments2024-03-15T07:24:22.608+00:00Comments on Life on Wings - A Tribute to Dr Ern Baxter: Dan Bowenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154622217401902922006-08-03T17:23:00.000+01:002006-08-03T17:23:00.000+01:00I would encourage you to consider posting a review...I would encourage you to consider posting a review. Sometimes the books that we don't agree with or don't particularly like can be the books that make us consider our position, our theology and our hermaneutics. In considering why you don't like aspects of what Mahaney has written, you may find you become stronger in your developing ideas, theology etc!<BR/><BR/>It would be interesting to read what you feel as I too am not feeling the call to go read this book yet. I would like to know either why I shouldn't read it or why I should!<BR/><BR/>Dr S A J BurgessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154525696157274992006-08-02T14:34:00.000+01:002006-08-02T14:34:00.000+01:00I really wouldn't hold your breath. I only said "...I really wouldn't hold your breath. I only said "maybe". But then again maybe I should ... getting shouted at is always good for the topic of the book! ;)Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154507736345331402006-08-02T09:35:00.000+01:002006-08-02T09:35:00.000+01:00We await the book review with baited breath!We await the book review with baited breath!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154494896455827902006-08-02T06:01:00.000+01:002006-08-02T06:01:00.000+01:00Another hit? In what way? A hit as in an interne...Another hit? In what way? A hit as in an internet mention or a hit as in a proverbial slap across the face? I don't understand what that means.<BR/><BR/>I felt we were having a very beneficial discussion - it was very helpful to me anyway in trying to identify legalism in contemporary church life and I didn't think Mahaney was getting slated at all.<BR/><BR/>Gosh people are very sensative and rather defensive of him aren't they. I wonder why? I read on Kevin Cawley's blog that "Everyone loves C J Mahaney - I have yet to meet someone who doesn't". So why so defensive?! ;)<BR/><BR/>But thank you for the tip to re-visit section 1 of the book Mr Anonymous Man. I think I will decline that and wait for the book review.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154456088243108072006-08-01T19:14:00.000+01:002006-08-01T19:14:00.000+01:00Another "Mahaney" hit!!! However, if you re-read ...Another "Mahaney" hit!!! However, if you re-read part 1 of the book i think you will be protected from any potential legalism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154453622196430642006-08-01T18:33:00.000+01:002006-08-01T18:33:00.000+01:00I think this discussion has demonstrated to me the...I think this discussion has demonstrated to me the absolute vicious ease in which legalism comes into the midst of the Church. I've just finished reading Mahaney's "Humility" that I brought at Brighton. I might post a review later.<BR/><BR/>But I was reading his tips on how to promote humility and the thought occured to me how absolutely easy it would be to become "legalistic" about becoming humble! And it was actually Mahaney himself at Stoneleigh 2000 who defined legalism as the "height of self-arrogance". <BR/><BR/>Isn't that incredible!? That striving to become humble could actually backfire and you end up becoming arrogant about being humble!<BR/><BR/>Now I am not saying that we don't need these lists of tips and ideas on how to promote humility or a more righteous life. But I can't get away from the verse in Galatians that says; "Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh".<BR/><BR/>That seems to suggest to me that if you walk in the Spirit, if you nuture a walk with Him, if you (as Mahaesh Chavda said) don't grieve my dearest friend - then the Bible says you will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Which includes pride.<BR/><BR/>So what I would like to see, I think, is less of lists of tips and ideas and more of HOW to walk in the Spirit. How to have a daily encounter with Him.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154418506435424952006-08-01T08:48:00.000+01:002006-08-01T08:48:00.000+01:00Well as I understood it, Mahaney's people say that...Well as I understood it, Mahaney's people say that they use the word "Cross" to envelop the whole of the Gospel. I don't think its the wisest word to use as the Cross is quite clearly part of the Gospel - as seen in Ern Baxter's teaching here. Christ's finished work was done when He rose - yet of course His work goes on.<BR/><BR/>So an element of confusion I think. Is it rhetoric quite like his "The Father killed Jesus" statement? I'm not sure. Whatever the case, I don't think confusion in such primal doctrines is wise at all.<BR/><BR/>But yes I would agree with Dr Burgess - I think while shocking, it is true - the Cross can be made an object of legalism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154412750403819242006-08-01T07:12:00.001+01:002006-08-01T07:12:00.001+01:00Can you ever make the Cross an object of legalism?...Can you ever make the Cross an object of legalism?? It's quite a shocking concept isn't it. Yet we must remember that the Cross isn't Christ. The Cross centred life? Shouldn't it rather be the Christ centred life? The Cross was simply the object of torture on which Christ had to die. It achieved nothing in and of itself. God the Just did not look on the Cross and become satisfied but on the sinless Son. As we know thousands upon thousands hung upon Crosses yet they never achieved redemption for a whole host of people!<BR/><BR/>I fear that the Cross may too easily become an icon and then we are simply Roman Catholic in our interpretation and our ecclesiology.<BR/><BR/>Yet the Resurrection can't be made an object of legalism surely - because there is no object to legalise! What symbolises the fact that Christ is raised? The empty tomb? Yet He didn't stop there! He went to Jerusalem and appeared to many! He then was gloriously ascended! All the negative symbols are empty! <BR/><BR/>Dr S A J burgessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154412725225230072006-08-01T07:12:00.000+01:002006-08-01T07:12:00.000+01:00Can you ever make the Cross an object of legalism?...Can you ever make the Cross an object of legalism?? It's quite a shocking concept isn't it. Yet we must remember that the Cross isn't Christ. The Cross centred life? Shouldn't it rather be the Christ centred life? The Cross was simply the object of torture on which Christ had to die. It achieved nothing in and of itself. God the Just did not look on the Cross and become satisfied but on the sinless Son. As we know thousands upon thousands hung upon Crosses yet they never achieved redemption for a whole host of people!<BR/><BR/>I fear that the Cross may too easily become an icon and then we are simply Roman Catholic in our interpretation and our ecclesiology.<BR/><BR/>Yet the Resurrection can't be made an object of legalism surely - because there is no object to legalise! What symbolises the fact that Christ is raised? The empty tomb? Yet He didn't stop there! He went to Jerusalem and appeared to many! He then was gloriously ascended! All the negative symbols are empty! <BR/><BR/>Dr S A J burgessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154403360387879562006-08-01T04:36:00.000+01:002006-08-01T04:36:00.000+01:00Yes I was a little startled at that too. More cer...Yes I was a little startled at that too. More certainly could have been said I think.<BR/><BR/>I love some of the referrals that Site Meter brings up! I am afraid I can boast very little google searches on "Mahaney". No surprises! Mine are far more bizarre. I've had a couple linked with "Draw Me close to you". Quite a few on "Restorationism and Terry Virgo". <BR/><BR/>I do agree with you. Modesty again was something that needed to be prophetically restored to the agenda of the church. It's a way that we can certainly be in the world and not of it, and I think the Mahaneys did that with humour and managed it quite successfully. But as soon as their disciples start making it an object of legalism, I think it's gone too far. Just like the Cross maybe ...Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154375171118210562006-07-31T20:46:00.000+01:002006-07-31T20:46:00.000+01:00I also tracked down the picture and comment after ...I also tracked down the picture and comment after you mentioned it. I was a little disappointed with the answer to the comment , and even that it was posted considering the comments are moderated. A better answer would have been "man looks on the outward appearances but God looks on the heart" or something of that nature. <BR/><BR/> And I thought you might find this funny...since putting up my site meter I noticed that someone came on my blog having googled 'manhaney modesty list'. My husband got a good laugh from that! If I must say it for the record however, I'm certainly not against modesty, just legalism in all of its forms.julhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688008902332240637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154363215990518372006-07-31T17:26:00.000+01:002006-07-31T17:26:00.000+01:00Here's the link:http://solofemininity.blogs.com/po...Here's the link:<BR/><BR/>http://solofemininity.blogs.com/posts/2006/07/the_gospel_and_.html<BR/><BR/>You can admire the lovely decor of my parents church at the same time ;)Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154360303517736282006-07-31T16:38:00.000+01:002006-07-31T16:38:00.000+01:00Thanks for your comment Jul, I would agree with Da...Thanks for your comment Jul, I would agree with Dan that your comments are incredibly useful and encouraging - I was interested in your comment: "I hope it isn't a sign that people aren't stirred by this truth".<BR/><BR/>I would hope that too - but we really just don't know do we. I think Dan would know that in the medical/legal professions if something isn't written down then it didn't happen! Just so in the Bible, out of the mouth flows the state of the heart. So people may be thinking lovely thoughts about truth revealed in this blog and other blogs but really there's no way of being able to measure that!<BR/><BR/>As for the vest top comment, that's incredibly disturbing. I'd be interested in a URL for that?<BR/><BR/>Dr S A J BurgessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154352698652932322006-07-31T14:31:00.000+01:002006-07-31T14:31:00.000+01:00I can't believe that! Someone criticised a PHOTO ...I can't believe that! Someone criticised a PHOTO because women were wearing vest tops?!?! Surely the powers that wrote the Modesty checklist wouldn't want that degree of legalism?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154351002906211642006-07-31T14:03:00.000+01:002006-07-31T14:03:00.000+01:00Yes you've got a point. I too am grateful for the...Yes you've got a point. I too am grateful for the prophetic restoration of the value of the Cross and a right understanding of it. That we share! But wouldn't you agree that it is so easy when a truth is restored to the Church, that the tendancy and danger is to fly to the extreme and ONLY emphasise that restored true to the neglect of everything else?<BR/><BR/>That can't ever be God's intention. As Paul said, "I did not hesitate to declare unto you the WHOLE COUNSEL of God".<BR/><BR/>I so agree with what you said - the Cross without the resurrection leaves us in dead works and legalism. <BR/><BR/>I was really saddened to read a comment on Carolyn McCulley's website recently. She came over to visit the UK SGM churches and posted a few photos - one of my parent's church during the sermon. Someone left a comment saying that she was shocked to see some of the women were wearing vests. McCulley hastened to reply and say that it was an outreach Sunday so probably those people were visitors!<BR/><BR/>I have to say - isn't that Modesty gone mad? I agree in theory with some of the principles of modesty - but it just makes me wonder what happened to the biblical teaching on how it doesn't actually matter what we adorn ourselves with as God looks at the HEART. The most modest person in church could have the most proud, arrogant heart yet still be praised because of their attire. Maybe I'm wrong - but that comment worried me. That people are passing judgement on a photo.<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for your nice comments - you are such an encouragement to me, and I really value your advice, and your comments. There's a short list of people who comment here who mean a lot to me and I take what you say very seriously!Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154347277873445212006-07-31T13:01:00.000+01:002006-07-31T13:01:00.000+01:00This amazing stuff. It rings so true with me, hav...This amazing stuff. It rings so true with me, having grown up always favoring Easter and being most enthralled with the idea of Christ's resurrection-He's alive! I laughed out loud at:<BR/> <BR/>"Those Christians who consider only Christ’s death are death-orientated. They never get past the Cross. These dear people have been dying daily for 50 years and they look like it – you wish they’d get it over with." <BR/><BR/>I've been living with those people for awhile now. Of course, it's not really funny. I do want to say that I didn't have a right understanding of the cross until hanging out with these people and I'm very thankful that God has taught me to really understand what he's accomplished on the cross. It's not an understatement to say it's changed my life. But, the cross without the resurrection leaves us in dead works and legalism. It ever points to the penalty of our sin, though the penalty falls on Christ we still obsess about how terrible we are. In truth, the cross is about how terrible we WERE. The resurrection of Christ bears testimony to the fact that we have been raised up in NEW LIfE. We are changed and Jesus lives in us by his Holy Spirit. Can there be any more cause for overwhelming joy?<BR/><BR/>As for lack of commenting, I know I can be guilty of plain laziness when it comes to encouraging people either in this format or in life in general. I hope it isn't a sign that people aren't stirred by this truth. Sometimes things are so well written here that I feel there isn't anything left to say! But there is always a lot to think about and this blog has been a blessing from God in my life. It has dramatically changed the way I write songs, especially in this area. I'm always looking for a way to reference the resurrection now, especially if I've also referenced the cross. I never want people to forget that Jesus not only died to atone for our sin but is alive and reigning victorious forever-and we are with him.julhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688008902332240637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154310073393179232006-07-31T02:41:00.000+01:002006-07-31T02:41:00.000+01:00I must confess I rarely leave comments on blogs un...I must confess I rarely leave comments on blogs unless I am sufficiently stirred enough (or angry enough) to make my feelings known, so I guess I am not the best person to ask.<BR/><BR/>The last commment I think I left one someones blog that was taking part in a debate was on the infamous "Who killed Jesus" conversation. I couldn't quite understand why such a row was developing over a piece of rhetoric by a preacher - when verses occured to me like where Jesus said, "Noone takes My life from Me - I lay it down of My own accord and take it up again".<BR/><BR/>So I do see your point Dr B, but I really don't quite know the answer. All I can say is that quite honestly I don't write for comments. If I get them it's a bonus and I read them carefully. And respond to them - unless they're from stupid anonymous people who are just plain rude. But I guess I am fortunate in that my blog isn't mainly my own thoughts - it's more the reproducing of another man's life ministry.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154308751204272062006-07-31T02:19:00.000+01:002006-07-31T02:19:00.000+01:00I am developing a study of what kind of blog posts...I am developing a study of what kind of blog posts attract comments and what ones do not. I find it terribly interesting that your blog post rebutting C J Mahaney's appalling attempt to humanise the book of Song of Solomon attracted over 30 comments - some angry with you, some not so. Yet a subject as important as this and there doesn't seem to be much to be said.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if this is standard for all blogs? It is a new concept for me because the medium of the blog is a new one. When do we comment? Do we comment as a knee jerk reaction to what we have read? Or do some blogs - we simply move on without commenting?<BR/><BR/>I really am quite genuinely interested in this. I think you, Dan, said just recently that without tools such as blog counters you have no way of knowing without comments who even visits your site - and therefore you assume quite wrongly that it is very few people. Yet this doesn't seem to be so - but at my observation, you seem to be attracting about 100 people a day - most of which do not comment!<BR/><BR/>I do realise I am rambling, but I am concerned that silence = no opinion on this most important of subjects. Not just here but generally. Other blogs about the Spirit of God and the end times pass without comment! Why is this?<BR/><BR/>DR S A J BurgessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154266738338185182006-07-30T14:38:00.000+01:002006-07-30T14:38:00.000+01:00How on earth did John Rushton get to sit behind Er...How on earth did John Rushton get to sit behind Ern Baxter?!?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154263502598486832006-07-30T13:45:00.000+01:002006-07-30T13:45:00.000+01:00Yes I would agree! A friend of mine, Jamie, was l...Yes I would agree! A friend of mine, Jamie, was leading us in worship at church this morning and he referred to the "Empty Cross and Empty Tomb being the source of our power". He said the same thing at our cell last week and I felt a tingle go down my spine when he said that!!<BR/><BR/>That's exactly where I feel I am at with this amazing sermon of Ern's! The most beautiful hymn/song by Kate Simmonds says; "In Him I have believed, in THIS my hope now rests". In what? The fact that Jesus Christ hung on a Cross once? Now the THIS is that "Jesus Christ is risen from the dead!".<BR/><BR/>Noone is detracting from the necessity or the vital place of the Cross. But if a person, a church or a group of churches makes it the catchphrase for something they believe or indeed what they believe then I think there is the danger of a truncated Gospel.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-1154262883745430132006-07-30T13:34:00.000+01:002006-07-30T13:34:00.000+01:00"Cross orientated people are sad people". Yere - ..."Cross orientated people are sad people". Yere - that makes real serious sense to me. Because everything about the Cross was negative! Every cry from the Cross aside from "It is finished" was negative! The Cross absolutely MUST be taken in tandem with the rest of the finished work of Christ - the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Enthronement!!<BR/><BR/>Otherwise we are building a negative Christianity that quite frankly - why should the world be attracted to it? A dead Saviour? A limp powerless Saviour who had "been killed by the Father"?<BR/><BR/>Well much as I respect those views, I would rather not have anything to do with that. I prefer the Son who laid down His own life and walked to the Cross, more than able to call down legions of angels to rescue Him but didn't for the JOY SET BEFORE HIM!!<BR/><BR/>This is a powerful mini-series going on here and I am so excited by it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com