tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post1314397801071080331..comments2024-03-15T07:24:22.608+00:00Comments on Life on Wings - A Tribute to Dr Ern Baxter: Qualified for the Ministry?Dan Bowenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-83648940889033430132011-08-16T13:26:12.052+01:002011-08-16T13:26:12.052+01:00I wouldn't question their love for one another...I wouldn't question their love for one another, and I get the professionalism of writing things down.. but as someone has said, "brothers, we are not professionals".<br /><br />Real wrongs are done and there have to be ways to deal with them, and real mistakes get made... and who knows how this might all have been handled better.<br /><br />Our failings don't invalidate ministry, and one can only hope that good comes out of all this - for the parties involves, for movements, for the church etc.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894433115379089423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-90876152853333260692011-08-09T20:33:29.866+01:002011-08-09T20:33:29.866+01:00Hi Dave,
A very interesting question - sorry for ...Hi Dave,<br /><br />A very interesting question - sorry for my delayed reply, the riots in Birmingham and extra workload have somewhat distracted me from SGM and "The Documents".<br /><br /><br />You raise an excellent point. "Love keeps no record of wrongs". I've never read a more detailed record of wrongs than "The Documents".<br /><br />Ergo - does Brent not "love" C J and SGM?<br /><br />I don't know. I've had a few personal email interactions with Brent and I honestly believe he DOES love C J and SGM very sincerely.<br /><br />But my experience in the NHS intrudes - we are taught strongly - "if it isn't written down, it DIDN'T happen". Documentation is your protection. Write it! What Brent has done very carefully is protect himself in a way that the NHS would be proud.<br /><br />Is it church? Is it biblical? Why did he feel he needed to write it all down? Lots of questions ....Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-47484078546181709802011-08-08T19:20:17.527+01:002011-08-08T19:20:17.527+01:00With no idea as to who is in the right or wrong an...With no idea as to who is in the right or wrong and no desire to diminish the seriousness of offenses committed and failures in systems and practice and all sorts of other things, the fact that "the Documents" exist disturbs me. <br /><br />If love keeps no records of wrongs, and Jesus has washed my sins white as snow then personally I'd really appreciate it if my friends didn't keep and collate every email I ever sent...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894433115379089423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-60400426698880612462011-08-08T15:46:51.030+01:002011-08-08T15:46:51.030+01:00Nicely put Dave! "keep too many records - we...Nicely put Dave! "keep too many records - we'll all be cast aside" - aint that too true!Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-11717613837923416742011-08-08T08:23:15.456+01:002011-08-08T08:23:15.456+01:00What "above reproach" means is a subject...What "above reproach" means is a subject needing consideration...<br /><br />Can't mean sinless, can't mean no-one ever raises complaints against them, can't just mean always repentant for failings (if those failings are too consistent). The standard for leaders is both high and very ordinary isn't it?<br /><br />And if we interrogate sin too intensively and keep too many records of it we'll all be cast aside - when evangelicalism is meant to be evangel-focussed, more of Christ and less of me. A qualified minister certainly lives out gospel reality but above all that would be by not causing me to notice them too much?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894433115379089423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-12571464847795612332011-08-07T12:31:21.893+01:002011-08-07T12:31:21.893+01:00I disagree with you Dan.
1 Timothy 3:2; "An ...I disagree with you Dan.<br /><br />1 Timothy 3:2; "An overseer must be above reproach".<br /><br />C J is not above reproach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-83563569447857838672011-08-07T11:21:42.145+01:002011-08-07T11:21:42.145+01:00Good question Anonymous - you've noted that I&...Good question Anonymous - you've noted that I've never actually stated it!<br /><br />Well probably some would think (bearing in mind my chequered history with SGM) that I am delighted in CJ's "fall" and think he should disappear never to return.<br /><br />I actually don't.<br /><br />Yes - I DO think that his obsession with sin-centreredness and a Cross-centrered gospel (to the exclusion of resurrection) hasn't been helpful for SGM and the rise of patriarchy, authoritarian leaders and so on.<br /><br />But the same excesses occured in the Shepherding Movement and I still love, respect and honour Ern Baxter and Charles Simpson and so on's ministry.<br /><br />We have to be consistent.<br /><br />I DON'T think C J is disqualified for the ministry. I think he's human. Do I think he should be President of SGM? That's not really up to me - that's up to the Board. I think Josh Harris would be better in place, but I don't doubt C J will be back.<br /><br />But I do think C J has a place in the ministry of the gospel. I just think his more solitary emphases would work better alongside an apostolic leader (like he was with Larry Tomczak) to bring balance.<br /><br />That's just my thoughts anyway.<br /><br />Thanks for asking!Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-38711602725895600582011-08-07T11:15:42.895+01:002011-08-07T11:15:42.895+01:00So do you think C J Mahaney is disqualified for th...So do you think C J Mahaney is disqualified for the ministry?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com