tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post6057533677334702507..comments2024-03-15T07:24:22.608+00:00Comments on Life on Wings - A Tribute to Dr Ern Baxter: "If the Lord is with us ... Why?"Dan Bowenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-50362744862481192922008-01-17T13:52:00.000+00:002008-01-17T13:52:00.000+00:00Good questions, "We were never meant" and a good n...Good questions, "We were never meant" and a good name! That's Dr Lloyd-Jones if I am not mistaken isn't it?<BR/><BR/>Gold dust and the other manifestations have been on my heart too recently. Why is it seemingly happening a lot over in the USA with various ministries and yet we who are alledgedly open to the Holy Spirit seeing nothing?<BR/><BR/>I am not sure - have Newfrontiers EVER seen gold dust or anything?Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-8083361705151226522008-01-17T09:28:00.000+00:002008-01-17T09:28:00.000+00:00If the Lord is with us ... why then have the remar...If the Lord is with us ... why then have the remarkable manifestations of 1994-96 faded and gone into the dusty times of history? Why aren't we seeing newer and greater demonstrations that the Spirit is among us and active? If the Lord is with us ... why aren't we seeing gold dust manifest in the meetings and times together? If the Lord is with us, why aren't we seeing feathers floating in the air at Brighton like some meetings are experiencing? If the Lord is with us, why aren't we hearing angels singing like they did at the Dales Bible Week?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-30237221516976011092008-01-16T16:49:00.000+00:002008-01-16T16:49:00.000+00:00Terry doesn't reply personally, I don't think he h...Terry doesn't reply personally, I don't think he has the time. I've tried him before. Mind you I think if you go to CCK and go up to him personally, he is usually very gracious even tho he can only spare you a few minutes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-30258891994182356372008-01-16T16:43:00.000+00:002008-01-16T16:43:00.000+00:00Thanks Julie, I didn't know that.Thanks Julie, I didn't know that.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-66480424616579873552008-01-16T16:38:00.000+00:002008-01-16T16:38:00.000+00:00Dan, the e-mail things is not a problem just go to...Dan, the e-mail things is not a problem just go to his website to the contact page. I e-mailed him before, though I only got a response from his secretary...it will get through.julhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688008902332240637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-60758547613824291372008-01-16T16:36:00.000+00:002008-01-16T16:36:00.000+00:00Here's another question that occured to me. Terry...Here's another question that occured to me. Terry - Newfrontiers could invite virtually anyone from across the whole spectrum of charismatic, Spirit-filled, faith speakers. You seem happy to verge on the more conservative speakers such as Mahaney, or Driscoll or Wayne Grudem. Why don't you verge on the other side and perhaps invite "wilder" speakers such as Rick Joyner, or Bill Johnson - men of faith who may have slightly off-centre theology but one cannot deny their passion for more of His Presence?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-23461484518560673912008-01-16T16:09:00.000+00:002008-01-16T16:09:00.000+00:00Why would C J want to apologise for comments about...Why would C J want to apologise for comments about women that he wouldn't see as anything wrong?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-64627119913005694792008-01-16T13:59:00.000+00:002008-01-16T13:59:00.000+00:00Interesting articles Driscoll-phobe. But I note a...Interesting articles Driscoll-phobe. But I note at least Driscoll did have the humility to apologise for his homo-phobic rant. That's gotta earn him a bit of respect. It can't be easy to apologise publicly when the eyes of the world are upon you. I would be interested to see C J Mahaney apologise for comments he made about women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-86286426681843761412008-01-16T13:08:00.000+00:002008-01-16T13:08:00.000+00:00Ha ha very challenging question Ellie! But alas I...Ha ha very challenging question Ellie! But alas I am not privy to having his email address! ;)Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-25133782141209972112008-01-16T05:11:00.000+00:002008-01-16T05:11:00.000+00:00So Dan, are you going to mail your list to Terry??...So Dan, are you going to mail your list to Terry?? :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-18252971555801139472008-01-16T00:46:00.000+00:002008-01-16T00:46:00.000+00:00Oh yere and here's another link to an article he w...Oh yere and here's another link to an article he wrote ranting against Brian McLaren calling the discussion "all gay".<BR/><BR/>http://blog.christianitytoday.com/outofur/archives/2006/01/brian_mclaren_o_2.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-50213396467225743602008-01-16T00:43:00.000+00:002008-01-16T00:43:00.000+00:00I am not familiar with Terry Virgo or the situatio...I am not familiar with Terry Virgo or the situation you are facing in the UK but Mark Driscoll I am familiar with, living in Seattle USA and being a "casualty" of his Old Testament style of leadership. Here's a quote you may find interesting;<BR/><BR/>"There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than Christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the Bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity".<BR/><BR/>Relevant Magazine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-5622595511686593612008-01-16T00:40:00.000+00:002008-01-16T00:40:00.000+00:00Thanks Luke for taking the time out of your busy s...Thanks Luke for taking the time out of your busy schedule to leave a comment!! Yere as always Luke, you provoke me to think (and that's partly why I posted the questions). I want to think about this! I want to bounce concepts off people who I trust such as Luke and others so that I can (hopefully) grow in wisdom.<BR/><BR/>"'if you feel called to a nation, please get in touch with us/fill in this form - even if you think Newfrontiers aren't in that area yet so what's the point - you never know, you might be the one to go and open it up for us! Or at least then we can let you know when developments occur' - stuff like that"<BR/><BR/>Well that is really encouraging!! I didn't know that - see I knew I shouldn't be missing Mobilise! :) Well it would be ever so interesting to share my heart for China. I just cannot understand why every time I pray for China or hear something about China, I keep bursting into tears! I wonder what would happen if I filled in a form ... <BR/><BR/>Yes I fully take your point that God could have some things that I could learn from Mark Driscoll! *gulp*!<BR/><BR/>I would hate to think that I am reacting against some perhaps over-zealous things that Mark Driscoll said and took an instant dislike to the man because he came across as everything that is bad about men and yet BE as bad as Mark Driscoll! I.e proudly stating that I am not gracing Brighton with my presence because of that .... American ... ;)<BR/><BR/>So thanks again Luke - you have really challenged me and I really mean that. This is new territory for me because up until now I have NEVER had a problem with decisions Terry Virgo has made and speakers he has invited! (Well maybe apart from C J ...). But I don't want to become a moaner and miss out on anything that God has!! :)Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-33108393023758222762008-01-15T21:57:00.000+00:002008-01-15T21:57:00.000+00:00testtestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-21803694618570861312008-01-15T21:37:00.000+00:002008-01-15T21:37:00.000+00:00The question I would turn around is - in Newfronti...<I>The question I would turn around is - in Newfrontiers, don't you have to wait to get asked to get involved in nations like that?</I><BR/><BR/>I remember that session at Stoneleigh - I was 16, and at the time I thought that you had to be invited to do anything exciting for God. To be honest, at the time it would greatly trouble me: how long would I have to wait to be asked? What if no one ever noticed me?<BR/><BR/>Whether or not this was the mood at the time (I doubt it - I reckon that being something of an outsider on their way in, I simply misjudged the mood), this is certainly not the attitude I have encountered in Newfrontiers in recent years. <BR/><BR/>Every Mobilise, every Newday, every Student Worker Day from the last few years I have heard the same exhortations: 'if you feel called to a nation, please get in touch with us/fill in this form - even if you think Newfrontiers aren't in that area yet so what's the point - you never know, you might be the one to go and open it up for us! Or at least then we can let you know when developments occur' - stuff like that. <BR/><BR/>So from my limited perspective Newfrontiers are pulling out all the stops to make sure that our people know we're on a mission and there is a permanent, ongoing, open ivitation for all to take part. And in fact over the last year or so we have seen some significant leaders from Newfrontiers lay down responsibility in their own churches to explore China. <BR/><BR/>I have said before that I highly doubt that Mark Driscoll will be coming to share with us 'How-To' build a megachurch. Instead, just as being with Rob Rufus had something rub off on us, so I hope being with Mark Driscoll will have a similar effect in terms of (before you say 'well I don't want him to rub off on me!') the things <I>God</I> would have us grow in. <BR/><BR/>One year (I think when Brighton conference was just for Pastors) Jackie Pullinger was the main guest and shared with the conference. Now I'm sure that the following year when she didn't come back, there <I>could</I> have been a tribe quoting Isaiah 58 and saying:<BR/><BR/><I>"If the Lord is with us - won't the bigger churches come as a result of caring for the poor and needy rather than hearing [mild insult to that year's speaker]?"</I><BR/><BR/>They could well have been right, as could you. I don't know. All I know is that there's limited time available, and I know for a fact that some Bible-believing, Spirit-filled, tongues-speaking charismatic Newfrontiers-Christians on a mission were equally as concerned (maybe not quite as vocal!) at Rob Rufus being at Brighton as you are about Mark Driscoll. Each year I seem to encounter some objection or other to the choice of main speaker. This does not bother me. There will always be some dissidents. <BR/><BR/>What does bother me is the thought that these people may end up missing out. God regularly reminds me that He doesn't call me to understand Him, only to trust, follow and obey Him. How sad it is when I will only operate in the realm of things I feel I understand (and therefore have some element of control over). A leader once challenged me that when a preacher said something I didn't agree with, I didn't write it down along with the rest of my notes. They pointed out to me that, in over-zealous application of what were nothing more than my (possibly quite narrow) opinions, I might miss out on what <I>God</I> had to say. <BR/><BR/>Similarly, I would hate for those who weren't happy with the choice of speaker to miss out on what God has to say. <BR/><BR/>So last year, I actively encouraged my Rufus-sceptic friends to turn up and trust God with an open heart. And this year I intend to do the same with the Driscoll-sceptics!Luke Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00966431415035294926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-71430662138926671152008-01-15T20:21:00.000+00:002008-01-15T20:21:00.000+00:00Here's a question;If the Lord was with us at Brigh...Here's a question;<BR/><BR/>If the Lord was with us at Brighton in July, then why did we only see "moderate" miracles? I don't mean that offensively, I am sure that the miracles meant a lot to the people who received them.<BR/><BR/>But why didn't we see lame getting out of wheelchairs and leaping? Why didn't we see cancer tumours dissolving? Why didn't we see dead bodies being brought in and subsequently raised from the dead?<BR/><BR/>I don't know about anyone else but I definately sensed a withdrawing of the Spirit in the last session of Rob's. Was He grieved at being judged by those who weren't comfortable and were simply "observing"? :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-11972889088259840722008-01-15T20:18:00.000+00:002008-01-15T20:18:00.000+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-5908719458822792832008-01-15T19:27:00.000+00:002008-01-15T19:27:00.000+00:00Wow that is quite a collection Dan. SO many peopl...Wow that is quite a collection Dan. SO many people want to abandon the past and want to forget, but when you have committed your vision to tape or video - it is hard to forget! And it shouldn't be forgotten if it truly is of the Spirit of God! I hope and pray that Terry Virgo still believes this statement and would welcome a list of such challenging questiosns.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-50958021483711247182008-01-15T06:53:00.000+00:002008-01-15T06:53:00.000+00:00Morning guys (or evening for those in the USA) - w...Morning guys (or evening for those in the USA) - well yes excellent question James and one that I am already thinking and praying through. The question I would turn around is - in Newfrontiers, don't you have to wait to get asked to get involved in nations like that?<BR/><BR/>Diane - when I first started going to Stoneleigh Bible Week, I was quite influenced by a pastor there who was an avid collector of the video messages of men like Terry Virgo, Dave Holden and Dave Devenish so I copied him. I now have got a considerable collection of old Stoneleigh messages on video back from 1999 of those men.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-32977213241158874582008-01-15T06:31:00.000+00:002008-01-15T06:31:00.000+00:00dan where on earth do you get these old videos fro...dan where on earth do you get these old videos from?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-90164594899573711542008-01-15T06:29:00.000+00:002008-01-15T06:29:00.000+00:00Fascinating questions. I would wager he wasn't ex...Fascinating questions. I would wager he wasn't expecting a list like that when he said that at Stoneleigh 2001! I remember hearing him say that and thinking how unusual it is for an old dude to be almost begging for us young guys and girls to ask questions. <BR/><BR/>The only thing I think I would add (because I want to know the answers to this list too!) is that are we prepared for the questions to be turned round on us? You know - so for example, you ask rightly about China. What's going on with China? Why aren't Newfrontiers in China in a presence? Are we ready for the leaders to turn it round on us and say;<BR/><BR/>"Okay, well China is obviously on your heart - are you ready to go?".<BR/><BR/>It's easy asking questions from the safety of the West, but are we ready to sell all and move out like Hudson Taylor and have no plans to come back?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com