tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post7695268879123766999..comments2024-03-15T07:24:22.608+00:00Comments on Life on Wings - A Tribute to Dr Ern Baxter: Humour versus Holy Spirit ...Dan Bowenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-81850038374620258202008-01-20T12:52:00.000+00:002008-01-20T12:52:00.000+00:00Thanks for your comment and the link "Praying for ...Thanks for your comment and the link "Praying for you". I am really saddened reading your site. Unfortunately I am familiar with the brand of church leadership that makes executive decisions such as the hiring and firing of leaders with the veil of secrecy over it.<BR/><BR/>That's quite an ironic picture you post at the bottom of your blog. I will be visiting it regularly and praying for you guys in Seattle - and I do mean that!Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-44137113122030764172008-01-20T10:00:00.000+00:002008-01-20T10:00:00.000+00:00You are right Dan.Watch this: " REL="nofollow">htt...You are right Dan.<BR/>Watch this: <A HREF="http://youtube.com/watch?v=YE3FHMTAWHY<br/>" REL="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=YE3FHMTAWHY<BR/></A><BR/><BR/>Stop by:<BR/><A HREF="http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/" REL="nofollow">http://prayingheart.wordpress.com</A><BR/>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-52790326120856581392008-01-07T15:35:00.000+00:002008-01-07T15:35:00.000+00:00That's an excellent point Bridgette - yes, he may ...That's an excellent point Bridgette - yes, he may have some excellent points about his ministry - he may be accomplishing new things but his success in certain areas doesn't equip him to address every area of Christian life authoratatively. Some of the best young pastors and pastoral interns I know who are under 30, are those who recognise the limitations yet advantages of youth.<BR/><BR/>Could it be that the Christian exalting Mark D onto a pedestal has been his worst enemy? People want answers from him, they want issues addressing which maybe he simply isn't experienced enough to answer.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-3076869849661284522008-01-07T11:36:00.000+00:002008-01-07T11:36:00.000+00:00Driscoll has been very popular with young calvanis...Driscoll has been very popular with young calvanists for some time now. He was also in the emergent camp before he moved to the reformed side. He is also YOUNG in my opinion. As a 47 year old single woman and christian for 30 years would I respect him as a pastor to me? No.<BR/>He and his camp does have a good point about reaching men though. It is a huge problem. But the proverbial beer /pub sharing in this group is not the answer. A genuine Pauline conversion/REPENTENCE is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-54568552265117449532007-12-31T15:46:00.000+00:002007-12-31T15:46:00.000+00:00Dan, I just resent the email. I had your address r...Dan, I just resent the email. I had your address right. I hope it goes thru this time! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-32283267400054487472007-12-31T08:49:00.000+00:002007-12-31T08:49:00.000+00:00Hey Ellie! No, sorry it didn't seem to have come ...Hey Ellie! No, sorry it didn't seem to have come through! :(<BR/><BR/>It's CharismaticDan@yahoo.com<BR/><BR/>Look forward to hearing from you!Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-41791196825857752472007-12-30T07:57:00.000+00:002007-12-30T07:57:00.000+00:00Dan, did you get my email?Dan, did you get my email?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-80219658654682722912007-12-29T23:29:00.000+00:002007-12-29T23:29:00.000+00:00Hey Squidgie, no need to apologise. I grew up in ...Hey Squidgie, no need to apologise. I grew up in a church very similar to SGM and was also very defensive of any criticism of it. It's natural we defend that which we love. I want you to know though, that there is no malicious gossip in any of our hearts. I loved SGM - I loved C J Mahaney and I loved the values they stood for. But those same values hurt me to the extent that it seperated me from my family and my family stood with the church rather than me. Your comments are welcome here - just all I ask is that you read and consider with an open mind. Just as I try to alwasy be open to the fact that I could be wrong.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-66879297573246761752007-12-29T23:06:00.000+00:002007-12-29T23:06:00.000+00:00I am sorry - I apologise. I guess I over-reacted....I am sorry - I apologise. I guess I over-reacted. SG and C J Mahaney have meant so much to me and I can't imagine church life without them and I guess it's hard to stomach criticism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-88333071654047620332007-12-29T22:06:00.000+00:002007-12-29T22:06:00.000+00:00Hi Squidgie again - I am guessing you are the same...Hi Squidgie again - I am guessing you are the same squidgie as over on "SGM ... Uncensored". You've just read quite a few people who all testify to the experiences. Surely that should make you sit back and wonder if there is truth in what is being said.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-68701392219021255542007-12-29T21:13:00.000+00:002007-12-29T21:13:00.000+00:00I would so agree with you Lydia - and it's somethi...I would so agree with you Lydia - and it's something that I've learnt myself from starting to blog 2 years ago. I always thought the idea of blogging was a sort of online diary and journal. Then I began to find exactly what you mentioned - that the comments proved just as helpful as the post. So I am really glad that this has been helpful to you! It's an awesome privilidge to have you drop by and read and even more comment.<BR/><BR/>Ah "Squidgie" I wondered how long it would be before someone angry and anonymous dropped by. You've got a couple of things wrong unfortunately.<BR/><BR/>I consulted a website specialising in libel and slander and it reads thus;<BR/><BR/>"Libel concerns the written word and material broadcast on television or radio. Slander concerns the spoken word".<BR/><BR/>So I think you are accusing us of libel. But secondly the website said that when accusing of either;<BR/><BR/>"When an individual or company brings a libel or slander action, they must show:<BR/><BR/>1. that the words are defamatory of them;<BR/> <BR/>2. that the words would be understood to refer to them by even one other person; and <BR/><BR/>3. that the words have been published to a third party. <BR/><BR/>A libel claimant does not have to prove that the words are false or to prove that he has in fact suffered any loss. Damage is presumed. A slander claimant will need to prove that the defamatory allegations caused actual damage, unless the slander is within certain categories".<BR/><BR/>(ref: http://www.carter-ruck.com/FAQs/Libel%20and%20Slander%20Cases.html).<BR/><BR/>I don't see how the actual blog post can fall into either category of slander or libel because I was simply quoting Mark Driscoll himself. I'm sorry if you feel upset at what has been written but perhaps you need to elaborate on exactly what you're upset about. Is it what Mark Driscoll said? Do you therefore agree with him?Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-33128611484440114722007-12-29T20:50:00.000+00:002007-12-29T20:50:00.000+00:00This is pure and utter slander - slander - nothing...This is pure and utter slander - slander - nothing but slander of both Mark Driscoll and Sovereign Grace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-15235373168443387652007-12-29T16:32:00.000+00:002007-12-29T16:32:00.000+00:00Glad to hear these last few comments, God was just...Glad to hear these last few comments, God was just speaking to my heart about the importance of both Word and Spirit....I am finally getting it!!....whether you guys know it or not you are teaching me so much through the posts and comments you leave, and I am sure many others.......so thanks!!!lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01495924200222561417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-91815526540434228022007-12-29T13:54:00.000+00:002007-12-29T13:54:00.000+00:00I must agree completely with you both, Dan and Jul...I must agree completely with you both, Dan and Julie. I have sat in such wonderful meetings where the Holy Spirit has been welcomed. It has been so good, and yet, when the Word has been absent, something within me is still unsatisfied. Blessed, yes, but unsatisfied.<BR/><BR/>Similarly, I have been to many, many places where the Word has been taught, but where the Holy Spirit has not been given liberty to minister. The teaching has been helpful, I have even fed from it to an extent, I have learned sound doctrine and been challenged about living godly (but not usually empowered to live godly). But - I still leave unsatisfied.<BR/><BR/>And there have been times (and I agree with Dan, the times I heard Rob Rufus at Brighton and through the messages downloaded, and what I have read on your Rob Rufus blog) when I have been utterly blown away by the glory of His presence and the power of His truth.<BR/><BR/>Surely this should be the norm of church life. But it's not. It is such a tragedy. And all the examples of the abuse of the Word that people have shared on this post, are heartbreaking and - I agree - a grief to the Spirit of God.<BR/><BR/>Which is all the more reason to model this ourselves, to feed wherever we can, and to share the message of grace with whoever will hear.Peter Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14498529242569940604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-66943560335284492262007-12-29T13:33:00.000+00:002007-12-29T13:33:00.000+00:00Amen I couldn't agree more Julie. R T Kendall the...Amen I couldn't agree more Julie. R T Kendall the former minister of Westminster Chapel in London once spoke prophetically (although I don't know if he knew it) and said;<BR/><BR/>"When the Word and Spirit come together, spontaneous combustion (revival) will occur".<BR/><BR/>I think men like Ern Baxter took great leaps to bring the two together, but I must be honest - I have never encountered anyone get so close to unifying the two than Rob Rufus. As I said before I have learnt more about the Word of God and insights into it from Rob than from many doctors of theology.<BR/><BR/>He honours the Spirit, he welcomes the Spirit, He is DESPERATE for the Spirit yet still preaches the Word. <BR/><BR/>I used to think Terry Virgo knew this as well, but I am currently quite confused about Terry and what he is upto inviting Mark Driscoll to Brighton.<BR/><BR/>The more and more I think about Mark Driscoll and the outrageous things the more clear I become that I cannot afford the time or the money to settle for one or the other and go to be fed by a ministry such as Driscoll's that will grieve the Holy Spirit, I believe, but belittling women.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-65854764375589975272007-12-29T12:49:00.000+00:002007-12-29T12:49:00.000+00:00I think true word and Spirit people will not think...I think true word and Spirit people will not think of 'splitting'. They will never settle for one or the other, and will not be fed by 'ministry' that leaves one of them out.julhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688008902332240637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-58353375786497658112007-12-29T12:03:00.000+00:002007-12-29T12:03:00.000+00:00I just followed one of the earlier comments to Mar...I just followed one of the earlier comments to Mark Heath's site where you mentioned he spoke about Mark Driscoll coming to Brighton. Firstly like you I find it somewhat odd that the comments don't work on his site but secondly yes I find the comparison between the two speakers coming to Brighton really sad.<BR/><BR/>Rob Rufus = we looked forward to an anticipation of the Presence of God and the demonstration of signs and wonders.<BR/><BR/>Mark Driscoll = we can look forward to controversy.<BR/><BR/>Great! .... Not!<BR/><BR/>But I noted Mark says; "I am looking forward to a real feast of the Word at these two conferences". I find that somewhat sad too ... so this year the Holy Spirit has a year off does He??! He, like Rob Rufus, isn't invited this year?<BR/><BR/>Why are we splitting Word and Spirit up again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-77191249117784290462007-12-28T21:28:00.000+00:002007-12-28T21:28:00.000+00:00Hey Ellie! My email is:CharismaticDan@yahoo.com.J...Hey Ellie! My email is:<BR/><BR/>CharismaticDan@yahoo.com.<BR/><BR/>Jo, thanks again for your comments and your thoughts it really helps to get an idea of where you are coming from and where we differ and what similarities we have! I do really believe that much of the disagreements we have and hold are due to misunderstandings and misinformation.<BR/><BR/>Of course a degree of it will be theological in nature - for example whether or not we believe the Bible teaches that eldership of churches should be restricted to men or not.<BR/><BR/>But I think we can all unite surely across complementarian/egalitarian boundaries in agreeing that mistreatment of women such as we have been discussing is unacceptable and ungodly.<BR/><BR/>The more I meditate on what's been discussed the more disturbed I become and I defy Driscoll or any of his fans to defend biblically some of the things he is saying. And I want SCRIPTURES - not what he says.Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-49060811208650812532007-12-28T19:09:00.000+00:002007-12-28T19:09:00.000+00:00Dan,how do we email you?Thanks!Dan,<BR/>how do we email you?<BR/>Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-18614651344989263202007-12-28T08:33:00.000+00:002007-12-28T08:33:00.000+00:00That's a good question Dan and thanks for your kin...That's a good question Dan and thanks for your kindness. It's pretty rare in evangelicalism as I am sure you can imagine for me. To be honest I can't add much more than my own observations. Historically as you know women have always been kept down and made to be the person at home who raises the kids. I think during the sixties, seventies - gradually awareness came that women were equal to (and in some cases superior to) men and the question arose as to why they were being forced to do sub-standard jobs while being denied the opportunity to vote, to generally take part in society as men did.<BR/><BR/>So its of course only been recently in the last century of so that women have got the vote, and got the chance to go to work. That's not to say we deny our nature-given (some would say God-gievn) role of having children. That's not changed - but why are we forcibly being denied the rights and the opportunities to go and take part in normal society living?<BR/><BR/>So much of society has changed and adapted and kept up - I think lawsuits keep such conservative, antiquated men quiet - but the church in some areas has not. Such as Mark Driscoll. So I am asking why is Wayne Grudem any better than the conservative men who didn't want us going to vote, or getting jobs? What's the difference? Isn't it all an attempt to deny us the opportunity to just do something we want to try?<BR/><BR/>Sorry for all that ... you asked ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-60185096152317554332007-12-27T23:33:00.000+00:002007-12-27T23:33:00.000+00:00No one will hang draw or quarter you here for havi...No one will hang draw or quarter you here for having an opinion Jo! Last time I heard, freedom of speech was something we can celebrate at the moment where we are writing so let's make the most of it. All I don't really like is opinions being expressed without any attempt to examine them or back them up with Scriptural evidence (if you are a Christian) and most certainly expressed with a lack of love.<BR/><BR/>Short of that - speak away! Thanks for posting, it is always good to know where people are reading and where abouts you come from.<BR/><BR/>As someone who states you are a feminist, I would be very interested in your opinion and your comments on some of these issues we are dealing with. You say that you agree that much of the anger in feminism comes from hyper-chauvinism. Can you elaborate on that at all?Dan Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661120561123767936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-36432926937156213572007-12-27T22:33:00.000+00:002007-12-27T22:33:00.000+00:00Thanks James, I thought I would be hung, drawn and...Thanks James, I thought I would be hung, drawn and quartered for leaving a message here! I noted in some earlier comments that there was some suggestion that feminism developed from hyper-chauvinism. I would certainly agree with that - all we want is equality. I happen to be one of the "non-angry" women, but I know a lot of my friends are very resentful because of fathers, brothers, uncles etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-85061090858257694882007-12-27T21:29:00.000+00:002007-12-27T21:29:00.000+00:00Jo - welcome to the discussion! It's great to hea...Jo - welcome to the discussion! It's great to hear from you and I certainly can appreciate where you are coming from! I am sure Driscoll would argue round that suggestion in some sense but - yes. Do we have the right to make demands of others if we haven't dealt with the plank in our own eye!?<BR/><BR/>What gives men the right to become fat and flabby just because they have "got the girl" - and yet expect their wives to remain hot?!<BR/><BR/>I think all this ridiculous outer adorning talk is fast dealt with in Proverbs. It's the HEART that truly makes one beautiful. Of course we don't need to necessarily take joy in being a picture of unhealth. But obsession with fitness and looks certainly isn't glorifying to God either. Where does it stop? Will Driscoll be suggesting his wife indulge in a bit of plastic surgery as she grows older?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-54055668681977426642007-12-27T20:43:00.000+00:002007-12-27T20:43:00.000+00:00I appreciate you are dealing with SG - a group of ...I appreciate you are dealing with SG - a group of churches I am not familiar with and I don't want to interfere in that or interupt the flow ... but I just have a small thought to contribute.<BR/><BR/>I am not familiar with Mark Driscoll however I am familiar with the male chavinist attitude he vomits out. From the photo of him, I wonder if HE has ever considered keeping himself "hot" for his wife? Not meaning to be personal, but he isn't exactly Vogue Men's Feature of the month is he?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13792024.post-66854154665916387562007-12-27T12:29:00.000+00:002007-12-27T12:29:00.000+00:00I want to chime in here and echo what Ellie said a...I want to chime in here and echo what Ellie said a bit. Unfortunately, SG has become so consumed in a "well groomed" body of believers, there is such a strong emphasis on so many areas of our lives, they have become categories that we need to "get right" -such as marriage, parenting, hospitaility, intimacy, organization, home management(speaking for the ladies/wives)......and so we have become so focused on our roles and all the areas that come with that, that we have essentially segregated men and women instead of unifying them...at least that is how I see it. We do not focus on the joy of our salvation, we do not focus on the entirety of the Gospel, we do not remember that Jesus died for ALL our sin, past, present and future, therefore taking away the need to obsessively discuss our sin issues to the "nth" degreee......we are so focused on roles, our part and sin, that we can't possibily see our amazing inheritance in Christ, it has been drowned out! <BR/>Anyway, Jesse I appreciate your desire to understand these issues the ladies are struggling with and with regards to legalism.....however, in my opinion it is subtle yet so pervasive, once you see it you will be horrified......a little leaven goes through the whole lump......I don't think this is an easy battle to take on......lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01495924200222561417noreply@blogger.com