And Finally ... Kate Simmonds and Christchurch, London!It seems that both the Holy Spirit and Kate were powerfully present in London along with Luke Wood. As I had made it to her last appearance at Church of Christ the King in Brighton, I couldn't really be jealous that Luke got to be there on Sunday at this amazing sounding church! Luke said that:
"I couldn’t tell you much of the detail, but the presence of God was there and it was great to be able to worship Him in our capitol.
The most memorable part (and this bit reminded me of Baxter’s Boy) was when, towards the end of the time, we had finished a song and Kate said “I don’t normally do this, but…” and went on to tell about her time visiting a revival in Pensacola in the US. She said she knew that she went there a singer, and came back a worshipper. “Before that,” she said “I thought Christian songs were a bit twee.” But she told us how that had changed during this time and we went on to sing the song which she says impacted her the most during that time: “Draw Me Close To You”.
It's great to know that those of us who don't see the need to "move on" from the beauty, power and depth of this song are in good company.
David Stroud, the apostolic leader of Christchurch then went on to preach on the Holy Spirit's Presence during worship. I've had Christchurch on my list of "must-visit's" for a while now. Luke's excellent report has fuelled that desire.
11 comments:
Awesome.
I always suspected that a worship leader of Kate Simmond's stature would love "Draw Me Close". Let's not be afraid of affections. They're good if directed to God!
Dear Dan,
I *would* love a CD of Kate...*hint, hint*. I think you said, in an earlier post, that you didn't believe her last service at her former church was taped?
Are her CD's available in the states? I generally wouldn't know what's "out there" in the stores of my own sphere...(with the advent of internet, I don't go to Christian bookstores often anymore - too too discouraging, what they publish!) If she's in stores in the States, I'll brave the trip to our neighborhood Christian bookstore. Is there an internet site from which I can order?
Hope your Sunday was blessed, Dan. Mine was pretty good, because we at LEAST had a small pile of sinners come to my church today. Two people that my husband and I have been "working on" finally came, as well as a few others - friends of another family in our church. During worship, *every* sinner, male and female, was wiping tears!! Some of the saints were poker faced, but the sinners were touched. ACK! These people are so ripe - I don't know if they came to Christ today or not - I have not had a chance to ask Tim (my pastor husband) and I had to leave church a little early.
We *always* have company after church - we rarely know who is coming, but they always come. I had some good ol' pork BBQ in the oven, along with ALLLLLL the southern fixin's. I had to beat the crowds home to get it all ready to eat. We don't do the "go out to eat every Sunday" thing. I'm a die-hard believer in hospitality. The Word says leaders are to be *given* to it. My home is humble, but has great atmosphere (if I do say so myself) and no one has to wait for a table, and heck...you canNOT beat a Tennessee BBQ lunch, home made by yours' truly. :-)
There've been as many sinners won to Christ in my home by meatloaf and BBQ ribs than my husband's sermons, and we've won more than a few to the Kingdom BOTH ways.
How'd I get here? That's what I get, when the house is empty and quiet, and I'm in a chatty mood...sorry. I'll go now - lunch is over and done, crowd's gone home, it is now what I call the "golden hour" - the couple of hours before sunset - and it's a beautiful east Tennessee evening for a walk.
Ah yes!! Thanks for the reminder!
Email me your address and I will send you her latest CD - that's the "Redemption Songs" one. She was in concert again at CCK and it is AMAZING!!
I am totally sure that it will bless you and thrill you!!
I had an OK Sunday to be honest. I was on a night shift last night and was driving to work and I suddenly got a picture of what I feel like my life is like at the moment. EVERY traffic light I came to was red! And I felt a real affinity. It seems everything I try and do - everything I try and accomplish is met by a red light. And delays - delays until finally something goes green and on I go! I think that God is trying to teach me patience and all that kind of business, but it was pretty upsetting - because the inevitable question is, am I doing something wrong?
You know what I mean!!?
Oopss - sorry that just flowed out! Your fault for asking!! ;)
An amazing sounding church! Is it new? How come we haven't heard of it before very much?
You summed up Kate Simmond's move very well - "Our loss is Australia's gain - Roll on Brighton!!".
How would you react to people who don't agree with female worshipper leaders? I understand this may be opening a can of worms but I am truly interested. I've been reading on the internet of various groups of churches that seem to complimentarian in their views that women would be held in Courts of Women and not even allowed near the inner circle that surrounds the pulput.
And I confess myself troubled by this extreme view. So I'd be interested in your reaction.
Well ... you are right you are opening a can of worms! And I have been promising myself not to get controversial because I'm tired of it - but just be lying in my garden along with Sheila prophetically waiting for the dew!
Briefly then ...
I think that view you quoted is extremist and it is one I am familiar with and grew up with. And it is one that I think is silly. The issue being that worship leaders are not actually known in the Bible. The term isn't found - to the best of my knowledge. So those extremists who argue that women worship leaders aren't biblical ought to examine their Bibles more closely.
I am a moderate complimentarian and as I understand it, the issue in the Bible is that women are not permitted to exercise authority over men in the congregational settings of church. If the elders of churches are doing their jobs properly then worship leaders aren't actually in authority.
They are there as delegated gifted individuals to play, and guide and set an example. My favourite example in the Bible is Miriam who went out before the people after they had crossed the Red Sea with her tambourine and they followed. She didn't establish herself as an authority! She just was so overwhealmed with gratefulness to God that she went off and worshipped. So should it be with worship leaders today.
Most situations in my Newfrontiers church and Newfrontiers conferences that I go to, are always without fail led by an elder who hands over to the worship leader. The elder remains in authority - looking out for gifts of the Spirit manifesting etc. But you always know that it is the elder who is responsible for the meeting. That's why I like the Brighton setup. The elders and apostles are actually on the platform!
The interesting thing is that I have found such extremists who only allow men to lead often vacillate between two other problems. The first being that they are not worshippers. The second being that they aren't very gifted so the worship descends into chaos sometimes!
The best book that reflects my understanding of this - is Terry Virgo's chapter on controversial stuff in his book; "No Well-Worn Paths".
That all being said, I think women often make far better worship leaders than men! I do! They just seem to be less inhibited and more released in their worship to God. Less afraid if they cry. Less afraid if they dance or sing. That's not a blanket rule. It's just something I've found. Stuart Townend and Simon Brading aside ...
I hope that makes sense.
So actually the term "Worship Leader" is quite misleading if you are taking it biblically - if worship leaders have a delegated mandate to guide the people into God's Presence!
Yes that's a good point. But to me the question is WHY is it such a misleading question? If we look at the New Testament, while there was most definately leadership given as a gift from the Ascended Christ - the time of worship and corporeity seems gloriously free of "leadership". Now I have no doubt that the apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastor/teachers were there and would intervene (unless it was in Corinth).
But the emphasis in 1 Corinthians 12-14 is on "everyone hath-a". There is no need for people to be stirred up! There is no need for examples to be set, because it seems that the Spirit had fallen and everyone came eagerly wanting to share, wanting to participate, wanting to see the glory of God in the meeting. Perhaps the Corinthians were too eager ...
I'm not saying that we should ban worship leaders. I love worship leaders when they are Spirit-empowered and sensative to Him and to His Presence. But I do wonder if we are to see restoration come, whether there will be less and less of a need for them and more and more glorious gifts of the Spirit coming out from the gathered masses. The Spirit Himself will brood and lead the meeting!! Maybe ...
Yes but surely anybody who is in a position such as a "worship leader" is by default in a position of authority. They have a microphone! Things that they say and do will carry weight! I realise the biblical evidence, but I am just trying to think through whether the elder in authority by the worship leader thing works ...
I would think Kate's endorsement of Draw Me Close To You is sufficient answer to Colson and Kauflin. Case closed, IMO. Thanks for reporting this.
Amen Don. I think it's quite sad (in the :( sense) that a worship leader feels they have to "move on" from a place of simple intimacy and passionate worship of God.
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