Condemned!! Or Not Guilty?

I try to be cautious these days writing a blog that may come across as attacking the views or expression of someone in particular. It's no secret that I've written angrily against SGM in particular in the past and particularly the church in Bristol - and I'm trying to address that in my own private way and make peace there. So believe me - I'm trying to learn and trying to grow! I'm even more cautious when writing against someone whom I am privilidged to count as a friend. That being said, I am so blessed to have the kind of friendship with Janelle that we do indeed disagree on many points of theology and Christian life - but know there is far more we do agree about. I've learnt a lot about SGM's way of life from Janelle and indeed she alongside Pete Greasley have probably been the most influential in softening my feelings!

So that context in place - a conversation has been happening on a post a few back entitled; "Curing the Gays" and this was prompted by the media interest in Philippa Stroud and her election campaign (incidentally I was interested to know that Mrs Stroud is now special advisor to Ian Duncan-Smith, the former Conservative leader) - to the dismay of some and the delight of others.

It was a conversation I was particularly taking seriously because a new Twitter friend of mine - a guy called Tom - has taken part and I was interested in his views and wanted to learn from his point of view. For heaven's sake - Christians are notorious among non-Christians for being obstinate and utterly inflexible. I don't want to propigate that (mostly) truth. If I am going to have any credibility with the people I want to share the good news with - then I want to know what's going on in their mind and their thoughts and learn why the good news of the gospel will be of use to them. So often the Christian world dumps the gospel out as it thinks the non-Christian world needs it - and can't understand why it's message is received as utterly irrelevant.

Janelle was involved in the conversation - but it was a comment she made that caught my attention and has had me thinking all day. She said;

"Tom, since the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin, so Christians must do the same".

There is some other context in the comment - considering how homosexuality is a worse sin in her view than gluttony - so I do recommend a read.

The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. So Christians must do the same.

Let's consider that carefully - because if it's true there are some implications for me personally. It explains to me maybe why I received the treatment I did at the SGM church in Bristol. If Janelle is right then the two church leaders were simply following the Biblical mandate to "condemn homosexuality as a sin". I had confessed to them that I had same-sex feelings so therefore condemnation from the church was rightfully deserved. And actually I am the one in sin for being angry and upset with what happened. She may be right.

Alternatively Janelle may be wrong and actually what right do Christians (sinners saved by grace alone) have to condemn ANYTHING?! Well clearly I have a vested interest in finding out. It may decide whether I ever enter a church again or not.

The Word: "Condemn(ation)".

1. Defined.

1. to pass an adverse judgment on; disapprove of strongly; censure

2a. to pass judicial sentence on; inflict a penalty upon
2b. to doom

3. to declare unfit for use or service

I find 2c; "To doom" particularly striking. I should note some of the definitions actually rather accurately describe some of the attitudes portrayed by the religious church. Does that make it right however? There's only one way to find out;

2. Useage in the Word of God.

Unsurprisingly the majority of the references to the word; "Condemn" are in the Old Testament. However there are some surprising references that foreshadow the coming of the glorious New Covenant and the gospel that must be mentioned;

Psalm 34:22: "The Lord redeems the soul of His servants - and none of those who take refuge in Him will be condemned".

I find that tremendous comfort knowing the struggling depths of my heart. I have felt so utterly condemned time after time by Christians who seem on the face of it never to put a foot wrong and are in fact shining lights in their churches - held up as model citizens and examples. I have frequently (and still do) asked God why on earth He ever called me. This verse says that those who genuinely take refuge in Him will NEVER be condemned. That's a promise.

Here's another interesting "Old Testament anomoly";

Isaiah 50:9; "Behold the Lord God helps me - who is he who condemns me? Behold they will all wear out like a garment. The moth will eat them".

I don't quite understand that promise from the Word of God - but I would not like to be in the position of someone who condemns those that the Lord God is helping. I don't know what the promise means - but I do not want to wear out like a garment or have a moth eat me. So far - I'm not fancying condemning those who the Lord God is helping.

Another;

Isaiah 54:17: "And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn - This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their vindication is from Me," declares the Lord".

This seems to suggest to me that in fact in His divine providence - the Lord actually reverses the tables on those religious who would condemn. "Every tongue that accuses you in judgement" - again the clear indication from the Word of God to me is that the Lord takes severe issue with those who attempt to do what only He should do.

There are of course other references in the Old Testament to condemnation - but not as many as I was expecting under an Old Covenant. Then we move into the New Covenant and the wonderful time of Jesus;

John 8:10-11: "Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either - Go From now on sin no more."

It's interesting that Jesus Christ asked the prostitute; "Did no one condemn you?". The Son of God knew that the religious community are somehow more than capable of condemning. But the key is in the answer. I do not condemn you either - on the basis of that declaration of freedom (and frankly who is going to disagree with the Son of God?) go in freedom and joy and live a life full of victory and peace and sin no more.

There are others but for now Romans 2:1 to close;

"Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things".

I would be extremely nervous of indulging in the discussion of "which is the greater sin - gluttony or homosexuality" that Janelle touched on. The Word of God is clear; "There is no impartiality with God". Sin is sin. And for that sin - there is a glorious solution. The Son of God went willingly to the Cross of Calvary and died for the sins of ALL Mankind. It is finished - meant it is finished. Every sin that offends and grieves God from time past to time present to the end of time was more than covered by the precious blood of the Son of God. Therefore;

Romans 8:1: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus".

2 Corinthians 5:19: "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation".

Our one and only message (as Julie said in her response comment) is the message of reconciliation. Terry Virgo said of condemnation;

"Condemnation is a WORK OF DARKNESS! It doesn't work! It has no power to change!".


Again - I would not relish indulging in activity that is entitled a "work of darkness with no power to change". Rather I choose to continue reaching out to the multitude of those who have not heard the full glory of the gospel - and far from condemn - make a full honest confession of my struggles and my journey. I am not going to pretend to be a "perfect, devout" Christian. I'd rather share with them my struggles, my journey - and how "this Jesus" has met me and loved me despite all I am and all I would be. THAT'S the miracle of the gospel!


Janelle - in all love and respect for you as a sister in Christ - condemn homosexuality if you feel you must and you should. Maybe you are confident of your sanctification to feel you can do that. But I remember again C J Mahaney's sermon; "Extravagant Devotion". And this quote in particular;


"He who has been forgiven much - loves much".


I used to wish that I really was a "perfect" Christian - whose worse sin was a bit of envy or a bit of pride. Or maybe a small bit of lust (because we're all men). But certainly not anything "bigger". Now actually I am beginning to appreciate what C J Mahaney was getting at. When you have experienced the depths of sin and struggle - you don't find much room in your heart for pride and arrogance. Me? I say again -

"The Cross does not have to be centred around me and be sustained by reflecting on my own personal failure! ... To insist on still calling myself a sinner could not add value to the Cross for me. Indeed, to call myself essentially a sinner actually dishonours the wonder of the gospel".

Cross or Crucified - does it really matter?

My thoughts have been caught up with the cross, the resurrection - all aspects of the gospel at the moment. I suppose there couldn't be a much better topic! Before I get onto what provoked this post, I have been reading quite a few books and blog posts specifically on the resurrection. I like the way Adrian Warnock put it in writing here;

"We must remember that the cross is just as empty as the tomb, and Christ is now glorified, having completed his work. The truth is, we cannot be truly cross-centered without also being empty grave-centered! Jesus was not just our prophet and priest—he is our reigning King. At the cross we learn true humility, our hopeless sinfulness, and our need of God. At the empty tomb we fully appreciate what Christ has achieved for us and receive power to live for him. A deeper, fuller insight into the truth of Jesus’ resurrection will cause our lives to be radically transformed".

So I wrote a post called; "A Truncated Gospel?" and the friend I learn so much from (and sometimes disagree with!) - Janelle - made a very valid comment. She said;

"Paul said that he preaches nothing else but Christ crucified, but we also know that when he says that he was talking about the whole gospel, not just literally the cross".

What got me thinking was her choice of words. She quite rightly said that Paul says he preaches nothing but "Christ crucified" (verb) and then said; "The cross" (noun). Paul was declaring that he would preach nothing but the action - the verb - what Christ did on the Cross. Was Paul saying that he would preach nothing but describing the historical event, time, date and detail of what happened there? I wonder ...

To change tack slightly - the popstar Madonna (who I like by the way) - caused great controversy in one of her recent tours; "Confessions on a Dancefloor". During the show the popstar appeared on a sparkling and glittering cross as though she was being crucified. Here she is;



So the question I have is:

Was that performance blasphemous? Or beautiful?

The bulk of the controversy was among Catholics - to whom of course the icon of the Cross is seen as sacred. Madonna achieved her goal - she wanted people to talk about the song and her passion for bringing awareness to the orphans dying in Africa and religious people argued and disapproved of her (something she doesn't care very much about). But what about the song? Is there anything sacred about the actual "cross" itself?

I would argue not.

Crucifixion was a well-known practice of execution designed not simply to kill the condemned but to mutiliate and dishonour them in the worst possible way. It was such that the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 21:23) actually said; "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree". The thousands upon thousands who were crucified by the Romans died in shame - but none of them achieved anything for us. Only one crucifixion (verb) achieved salvation for all mankind - and that was of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Son of God was prepared to literally die the worst death - so we could experience the best life!

"He left His Father’s throne above
So free, so infinite His grace—
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam’s helpless race".


He took love to Calvary! People often wonder what drives and motivates martyrs to walk with their heads held high to their deaths. I really believe it is nothing but love. Again I am prepared to fully conceed here that this is a too particular a discussion. Much of my concern lies with those (such as SGM) who to me over-emphasise the Cross at the expense of other aspects of the Gospel. But I fully admit that I am not privy to the preaching day-to-day that goes in in the USA churches and maybe the balance there is fully corrected. In which case - praise God!


The gospel is so completely gloriously wonderful in all its facets - why on earth would we want to single out one part? The life of Christ is indeed awesome. He lived and walked this very earth and experienced and suffered and was tempted in all points like as we - yet He sinned not. His death was unspeakably awful (and one that we could never and should never think we can imagine or grasp) - but love compelled Him there. His resurrection was glorious and triumphant as the powers of hell groaned in defeat. His ascension was something we can only dream of as He took His seat at the right hand of God and poured forth the Holy Spirit - "this which you now see and hear".

For us!

Prophecy-Inspired Facebook?!

Or Facebook-inspiring prophecy?!

Whichever - I decided to walk home from work tonight to clear the cobwebs after one of "those" days. However unfortunately I didn't have my IPOD with me and I get bored easily during an hour walk so decided to read my Facebook status updates on my mobile phone and my attention was grabbed by a wonderful C H Spurgeon quote that my firebrand friend Janelle Phillips posted;

"So, when you feel any inclination to put the crown of glory on your head, just fancy that you hear God saying to you 'Wait til I am dead before you put on my crown.' As that will never be, you had better leave the crown alone and let Him to whom it rightfully belongs wear it." - Charles Spurgeon, "The Soul Winner"

Anyone who knows me well know that I love C H Spurgeon and so was reading the quote with interest when I felt the Holy Spirit speaking and saying something to the effect of;

"And you will find that when you cast that crown before Me in worshipful surrender then I will give you a crown and a royal robe as an expression of My abundant love for you and the crown I give far exceeds the one you would keep".

Crowns! That thought/prophecy/whatever came from the wonderful verse in 1 Peter 2:9; "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation". We are royalty! Crowns are part of our inheritance that God and God alone will bestow (not for any other reason that His lavish grace) like He crowned His beloved Son in Hebrews 2:7.

I remembered a childhood awesome hymn that we used to thunder out in my home church in Dunstable - "Love Divine, all love's excelling". As a child I was always amazed that when the hymn reached the climax - "Changed from glory into glory ...", all the elders on the platform and most of the adults would lift their hands in worship. That never left me seeing that. It was a tragedy that progressively the worship in our church became more and more formal and outwardly more and more miserable.

Here's the lyrics for those who don't know them;

"Love Divine, all loves excelling,
Joy of heaven, to earth come down,
Fix in us thy humble dwelling,
All thy faithful mercies crown.
Jesus, thou art all compassion,
Pure unbounded love thou art;
Visit us with thy salvation,
Enter every trembling heart.

Come, almighty to deliver,
Let us all thy grace receive;
Suddenly return, and never,
Never more thy temples leave.
Thee we would be always blessing,
Serve thee as thy hosts above,
Pray, and praise thee, without ceasing,
Glory in thy perfect love.

Finish then thy new creation
Pure and spotless let us be;
Let us see thy great salvation,
Perfectly restored in thee,
Changed from glory into glory,
Till in heaven we take our place,
Till we cast our crowns before thee,
Lost in wonder, love, and praise!"

I remember being in Hong Kong at the "Glory and Grace Conference" and actually having a vision of something as to what it would be like to cast our crowns before Him. Crowns of tears shed in loneliness but resolute faith. Crowns of simple belief in the New Covenant that God is good and His love for us is real!

Rory and Wendy Alec on Todd Bentley (and a few other bits)

I had an email from God TV this morning and was interested to see that it was Rory and Wendy Alec and they were talking about Todd Bentley. I'm glad of this because I know public opinion that was anti-Todd generally blamed God TV (I think) for the publicity that it took to Florida. So it's suitable in a sense that the Alecs who made that decision had a say on the matter. I have to confess before-hand that I've been guilty of not thinking hugely highly of the Alecs. I've watched quite a bit of God TV since I moved to Birmingham and have watched a lot of their commentary - particularly around the Jerusalem "altar" thing.

An Apology and a Clarification ...

Before I copy what they had to say (and I think it's good and sensible and balanced and non-judgemental and full of hope) - I just wanted to make a correction to something I said in my previous post and may have unwittingly caused a bit of offence to my fave Florida blogger Janelle. I'd never ever want to do that as she's a great friend so wanted to set the record straight. I mentioned in passing the "Gospel Song" that SGM sing and didn't perhaps make the most flattering of comments about it. I want to make it clear that I wasn't against the song. It's a pretty simple song and can be quite powerful when used appropriately in worship. Although "Draw Me Close to You" still wins in my book ...

What I had a problem with was the DVD showing of a sketch that they performed at Covenant Life Church in which the performance of the "Gospel Song" was the climax. I have looked for the sketch on You-Tube but can't seem to find it. As I recall it was performed as part of CLC's 30th year anniversary or 25 years. It began with various people being introduced and singing different expressions of the Gospel and of the Kingdom. The only one I really remember (because it's probably the expression of my background deep in Ern Baxter and the Dales Bible Bible) was one where a man comes on stage and sings; "I'll build My church and the gates of hell will not prevail". Each person keeps singing and singing until the whole chorus sounds a bit loud.

Then a lady comes on and sings the Gospel Song and everyone else falls silent. The message seemed to me to be that all these other expressions are simply that - noise and they are inferior to the simple message that Jesus Christ died for our sins. And as I tried to say perhaps badly before - it's not that I disagree with the song itself. It's the suggestion that all other aspects of the Gospel are inferior. Why do we have to strip the Gospel down to it's bare bones? To the bones of salvation? That's my problem with the sketch. Hope that clears it up!

Lakeland ...

Now onto Rory and Wendy Alec and their comments on Lakeland;

"Beloved GOD TV viewer,

In the light of many statements having been released about the LAKELAND OUTPOURING and concerning Todd Bentley’s marital situation, we sensed that the Lord has released us to write concerning this situation, so that you, our viewers would know our heart concerning this matter.

The first thing we feel led to do is to state unequivocally that in the same manner as the Lord instructed us to broadcast and serve TheCall gatherings with Lou Engle; to broadcast what was happening at the International House of Prayer with Mike Bickle; Rick Joyner and MorningStar; the Solemn assembly in San Francisco; BattleCry and Teen Mania with Ron Luce; Focus on the Family’s prayer event for America; the Day of Prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem; and hundreds of other anointed events over the past three years, we believe that the Lord instructed us to broadcast the Outpouring services at Lakeland with Todd Bentley.

It was not a mistake.
It was not by mistake.

We believe it was a clear instruction from the Lord.

Over the past twelve years, but especially since our launch in America, we have in obedience to the Lord searched through the earth for those events and anointings that the Lord has laid on our hearts – to amplify their message and anointing to the Body of Christ in this crucial endtime hour that we live in.

The Lakeland Outpouring with Todd Bentley was one of those events. We received over 45 000 e-mails many, many of these heart rending, powerful testimonies from viewers across the earth of their bodies or their families bodies healed, their lives transformed and their hearts revived.
None of us have ever seen such significant fruit in all the years of broadcast.

Far more profound than that were the desperate cries for help. I (Wendy), would go through the live inbox and see the desperate cries from mothers, wives, sons and daughters, so many with TERMINALLY ILL husbands, wives, children, sometimes babies in arms – sensing HOPE in their situation that for so long had been without hope.

Just reading these prayer requests would bring one to tears –
We are often so cloistered from the agony of peoples day by day real life agonies - and their agonies were written there.

So much so - that we both sensed that would need the word of the Lord under the fear of God to stop these broadcasts with the life changing impact they were having in homes not only in the UK and America but all across the world. And the Glory of the Living God that was being imparted.

We both kept a very close pulse on the revival since the start of its broadcast - we had first hand knowledge of the enormous criticism, persecution and reviling that Todd Bentley was receiving (often we were second contenders for it) but it was Todd Bentley and the Fresh Fire team who received the terrible weight of this.

Todd ministered each day as the revival continued but was consistently and unrelentingly criticized, maligned, persecuted - the attacks grew increasingly violent - and the heartbreaking thing was that so much of it came from the Church.

At the same time, Todd was facing a second wave of attack. This was from the covens, the warlocks - we heard firsthand concerning some of these assignments. The enemy had heard of the great honoring of the Lamb and was determined to destroy it - BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE AND AT ANY COST.

And the cost was Todd Bentley.

Was it because Todd was vulnerable and certain areas of his life were not surrendered wholly? Yes – like so many of us - in all probability.

Was it because the character of Christ was not yet formed in him in the equivalent measure to his gifting? Yes - like so many of us - in all probability.

Could it be the case that there by the grace of God go YOU AND I… Yes - In all probability.
Some of the areas in our lives are watertight and have been honed and refined and polished by the Lord while still other areas in our lives are often still in desperate need of attention. We are an ongoing work and we work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Well - all ministers who preach should ensure their lives are in order, you may be saying.
Yes - we and our board and our minister peers across the globe agree wholeheartedly.
And yet, beloved - unfortunately, THERE ARE TIMES when satan comes unawares and targets a vulnerable area whose weaknesses only become apparent under the most enormous and unrelenting pressure brought to bear.

We believe and of course this is just our personal opinion, that the revival stirred up the satanic realms in a manner that has rarely been seen and with a violent wrath.
It is difficult to understand the degree of spiritual battle that comes against a leader. We have learned we need to protect the move of God with greater prayer for leaders, including ourselves. The body of Christ is growing in greater transparency and accountability, and this too should be a subject of prayer.

Should all of us wait till we are as perfect and as watertight as can be and mature in every area - that of course, would be the safest course of action, but the truth is that most of us would be 90 years old!

The Lord who made us and knows that we are as dust and yet looks on us with His great mercies and compassions knows this and He the sovereign God of heaven and earth still chooses to take a GOD-risk on you and I every day of our lives.
That even under the most intense pressure that we would choose HIM.
That we would love HIM.
That in times of intense duress and temptation that we would follow HIM.

And let it be so - even more in all our lives, but beloved - let us not forget so many of those who walk in ministry across the earth today with such COURAGE and FERVOR and lay their lives down for HIS CAUSE at great cost to themselves - Todd and Shonnah sowed their lives to sow the seeds of revival and we believe became a supreme target of the enemy.

On the June 23rd, Todd actually spoke openly and with great vulnerability of his and Shonnah’s previous marriage challenges and how they had faced those challenges and the Lord had begun His work. He did not try to hide their struggle but shared their ongoing journey.

As Rick Joyner so wisely put it –
"In marriage, I have learned there are those who admit they have been through times when they wondered if their marriage would make it, and then there are liars. Relationships are hard, and the closer they are, the harder they can be. I tell everyone that I give premarital counseling to that the Lord has ordained their marriage in order to kill both of them! That is true. It is also worth it! The greatest gift He gave to man was marriage and family. However, to have a marriage that is good, both will have to die to themselves. If either one does not make the commitment to lay down their life for their mate and their family, then what was meant to be heaven can be hell."

It is an ongoing walk - and we all are ongoing works. But the Lord said something to us some years ago - He said - When you hate sin because it HURTS ME - then it will lose its grip on you. When you hate sin because it displeases ME - its hold diminishes.

The Lord also shared with us that someone can be deceived in an AREA of sin but it does not necessarily mean that in every area of his or her life or ministry, they were walking in deception as some critics of the revival may lean to believe.

And who is to judge that the Lord does not hold the violent unleashing of criticism and faultfinding and tearing down and divisiveness of the heresy hunters, as severe a sin as separation in a marriage?

We will find out before the judgement seat in eternity.

One of our greatest grievings has been to see how many in the church backtracked to protect their own reputations. We have been truly refreshed by several close ministry friends with their uncompromising love of truth and lack of a man pleasing spirit that has arisen in the church in the light of the Lakeland aftermath. They have given us fresh courage when we grew weary.

So beloved friend –

Do we at GOD TV refute the Outpouring? NO.

We are presently planning to broadcast other offshoots of Lakeland in both the United Kingdom and America, including revival meetings in Dudley, England.

We have determined in our hearts to follow the Lord with all our might as courageously and as boldly as we can, to reject the pressures to bow to a man pleasing spirit but instead to humble ourselves under the Fathers leading.

For HE is our all in all.
He is our great desire.

Finally, dear friends, while we defend and rejoice in the many ten thousands that God lifted and healed, we also know that there were dear souls, sheep, who were scattered as a result of Todd’s personal choices. The Bible says that “hope deferred makes the heart sick” and this is the last thing GODTV would want to see happen. We arepraying for any that stumbled and believing that the Lord will restore them to Himself.

Remember: this was never about Todd Bentley. It was always about the Holy Spirit and the fact that God loved you and I. It was GOD who touched our lives.
One thing, we felt impressed upon our hearts thirteen years ago when we first launched this ministry. That the Father will allow none of us - whether in ministry or as a viewer to hold idolatry in our hearts for any man.

For the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit alone are to receive our worship.
We continue on the road to maturity.We continue our efforts to serve an end time spiritual army.

We continue to try each day to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of the ONLY one who is worthy of ALL adoration.

Of ALL HONOUR.
Of ALL WORSHIP.
Remember also, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Let’s turn our eyes toward Him and away from our trust in man.
He who sent His only begotten Son.
The Great Father of Compassions.
To Him alone we bow.
Personally we believe that the best is yet to come.
For our King and His Kingdom".

The Way to Disagree in a God-glorifying Way

Janelle, Julie and I have been having a wonderful thought-provoking discussion provoked by my post; "Effects of Grace and Law!!" - where I bit the bullet and wondered whether accountability groups were a good way to promote sanctification and also whether C J Mahaney's famous statement; "I am the worst sinner I know" is actually very biblical. One of the reasons I have such respect for Janelle in particular is that she is outstandingly polite in her disagreement, unswerving in her stand on theology she believes in - and incredibly well-read! She'd make a wonderful theologian ... ;-)

So she has written a response and an excellent summary of what's been happening in the discussion here:

A Reply: Scripture and Bible Doctrine

Janelle pulls on John Piper and Wayne Grudem in her defence, and it has really made me think through the distinction evangelicals have made between justification and sanctification. I think Rob Rufus is trying in his preaching to bring the two closer together. As I said to Janelle - the wonderful SGM guys love the phrase "Never move past the Cross". Surely that is a similar concept? That at justification we had this glorious moment when God imputed to us the righteousness of Jesus Christ and we were indeed "clothed with His robe of righteousness". But then God doesn't leave us to struggle through alone - with every sin and failure blotting that wonderful robe of righteousness surely?

(By the way Julie has also written a thought-provoking post based around some of our discussions: The Hybrid 'Gospel' where she addresses the danger of mixing an Old Covenant gospel and a New Covenant gospel - something I totally 100% agree with)

If that were true, then indeed we surely must have to take drastic action to restore fellowship with a pure and holy God - post-conversion. "The blood availeth still!". "Christ ever lives to intercede for us". The question I am pondering right now with my second cup of coffee is this - does Christ's intercession for us REQUIRE our confession to ensure God's forgiveness for that post-conversion adulterous thought or proud moment or lie? Our confession wasn't required at that moment of justification! How could we confess? We were "dead in trespasses and sin". It wasn't required at Abraham's moment of calling! What singled him out in God's plans and purposes was that he was prepared to believe God wanted to bless him and make him a father of nations.

I must hold up my hands and admit I am not quite sure what Rob Rufus's thoughts are absolutely on the issue of sanctification - because I have heard him say before that one of the reasons he is so grateful for Ryan's presence in Hong Kong is that is something Ryan teaches very well - whereas Rob sees his gifting as more teaching on justification. So for my homework - I am going to go away and listen to Ryan's sermon and type it up:

"Sanctification By Grace - "The Trinity of Man - Part 1"

Surely this is something that deeply concerns us all. As I said over on Janelle's blog - despite our disagreements about the methods to get to the goal - we can I think all be convinced that we stand and run together on THE goal - and that is to become more and more like Jesus Christ our glorious and wonderful Bridegroom knowing that one day we will stand before Him with unveiled faces!!

Rob Rufus on Florida's Part to Play in Hong Kong

I mentioned in my last post about Terry Virgo's comments about how revival needs to be grounded and rooted into the local church (Janelle Phillips also mentioned this). I was interested and thrilled to note Rob's comments on his return from his ministry trip to Europe among the Newfrontiers churches about Florida.

I haven't edited the comments at all - it's here in it's fullness. He said;

"I really believe (Ryan and Kylie) brought back something from Florida and we really want to just add it to us. You need to know - just in case people think that we are now building our church on the Florida Revival - we are not building our church on the Florida Revival! We are building our church on the foundations of an apostolic/prophetic foundation, upon the foundation of grace. Revivals are wild! And we endorse it and we empower it and honour what God is doing in Florida.

We cannot say that everything that comes out of Florida will be God. There has never been a revival where everything is God. There are weird things that sometimes come out of a revival - sometimes things of legalism there (not with Todd Bentley but with others). Some things Ryan has shared with me. In the middle of the United Kingdom while I was preaching, I said; "We celebrate the Florida Revival - we believe it is a flash point - but we don't believe it is just located to Florida as many don't believe that. We believe it is world-wide, we believe it is global. Florida is a kind of tipping point. But many places are breaking out now all over the world and this thing is on the move. It really is on the move".

There are some high-profile ministries that are now endorsing it and recognising it. I spoke to Terry Virgo while in the United Kingdom who heads up hundreds of churches around the world and he recognises that the power of God is there. They are genuine and there are genuine miracles. He is saying that as a movement they don't necessarily embrace the whole package - there are some things they would have questions about.

There's nothing wrong with having a few questions - there's nothing wrong with not understanding everything. Put some things up on the shelf. Everything must be tested but by and large I want to strongly say that God is on the move all over the world and what is happening in Florida IS God. There is no question about that. That is God. But everything that happens through different levels and different doesn't necessarily represent everything that we would agree with. Behind this passionate, enthusiastic face - there is a thinking mind! I am going to test everything through right theology and all of that - and all that I don't understand I will put on the shelf and I will wait.

But I don't want people to be afraid of deception because we have got to break that demonic thing where people believe that the devil has more power to deceive us than Almighty God has to reveal truth to us. The Bible does warn in a few places about "Don't be deceived in the last days" and counterfeit signs and wonders - but then it speaks a whole lot more about how to know what the truth is and how to be free in the truth and how to recognise the truth. So if you live in fear of deception, you are not going to step out into the miraculous. Y0u were never meant to live in the fear of deception - you were never meant to live in fear. So many Christians (even in Hong Kong) are so afraid of being deceived and they say; "I am afraid of being deceived". So you think fear is legitimate? Do you think your fear will protect you?

Job said the things I feared the most have come on me. You don't live climbing a mountain trying not to fall. You climb a mountain trying to get to the top. You are focused on getting to the top! You don't live in fear of being deceived - you live full of faith of getting revelation and of being so full of God and the knowledge of God's truth that the moment the counterfeit comes - you can see it. I am so sick and tired of Christians being put on the back foot on these things. I am not afraid of a false angel coming to me and trying to decieve me and appearing to me all beautiful.

The moment that happens I will discern; "Is this an anointing from heaven or is this an anointing from the demonic". If you can't tell the difference between an ugly demonic anointing and the anointing of Jesus then you need to get saved. In you and me there is an anointing and in meetings I can discern what is of the flesh, what is of God and what is of the demonic.

There has never been a revival - not one - where all three didn't manifest. Some people are pointing; "Look some of that stuff is fleshly - some of that stuff is demonic - that doctrine is a bit of heresy over there". Yes I know - but God is also moving powerfully! You will never have a revival where you can get rid of flesh, get rid of the demonic trying to come in. In Azusa Street Revival they had psychics prophesying in the middle of the meeting! In the mid-80's in the Kentucky Revivals they had 20, 000 under the power of God and at the same time they had pimps running around and making whiskey in the middle of that.

Every revival has weird doctrines that come in and strange things that happen. The most weird thing is when there IS no power, no one is getting saved and NO miracles are happening! I would rather have to sift through some of the weird stuff, theologically sift through it, than have nothing happening and sitting in the boat of religion and sitting and criticising everything happening.

I think the people who are most qualified to discern whether a move is a move of God or not are those people who have been in moves of God.There are people who are trying to judge this move who have never had a move.

I think if someone says "That's not God and those miracles are countefeit and that's not God" - I want to say to them; "That's fine - that is your right to judgebut show me YOUR miracles, show me YOUR signs and wonders, show me YOUR move!". "Err ... I don't have one". "Then shut up until you do!". There too many cryptics sitting on the bank and doing nothing and finding fault with what God is doing.

I want it to be registered that I don't agree with everything I am seeing in Florida and it's not up to me to tell you everything - but I tell you this. It is a move of God. Todd Bentley is a man of God. God is moving in mighty signs and wonders! Our focus is not on Florida - that thing will fade sooner or later. But it is not going to fade around the world. God's on the move".

God is on the move!! This isn't the time to be fearful, scared or apathetic. Let's be excited - be hopeful - and above all let it enthuse us to go out and proclaim the living glorious Gospel to the lost! Because God is attesting the preaching of the Word with signs following!

Why Go to Conferences ... ?

Sorry for the delay in blogging. I've just worked an almost 36 hour shift with no break due to a bed crisis (I'm pretty sure the European thingy on health would have something to say!). But I'm back. I woke up this afternoon from a night shift feeling DRUNK. I tottered out of my bedroom just loving the manifest Presence of God filling the flat. Ephesians has got a point. Who needs wine?! Anyway I have got so much of Rob's ministry that I am trying to transcribe I am suffering from overload.

Here's the quote I wanted to post:

"How many of you are so sick and tired about people speaking about kingdom and theology and church and church pattern and principles of the Kingdom and yet you never feel the honey of heaven on their words or that they have just come from the realm of glory and there is deep intimate love because they know Jesus better than they know another human being on the planet?".

Rob Rufus - "Session 1 - Grace and Glory Conference in Sydney".

For all the criticism and the flack that Rob may take (I've had a few emails expressing horror at the "Fire!" video I posted!) you cannot deny that this is a man who is passionately in love with his Jesus Christ. And he may not be lecturing on "Church Growth" or "Cell" or "Planting Churches" but I would cross oceans to touch his heart because there's something contageous about his love for Jesus Christ. You come away thinking; "Wow ...". Surely that's the point of any conference ... and indeed local church as Janelle pointed out so well.

A Day of Impartation in Lakeland Florida!!

Pete and I have had an incredible time watching the live streaming on God TV - God is so powerfully still healing people and this thing shows no signs of waning! I am actually reluctant to call it a "Revival" because of a prophecy given by a man from City Church International in Hong Kong that fits very much what Rob himself prophesied - this is a new atmosphere! A new climate! History is truly in the making.

The streaming we were watching was from the night when Paul Cain visited the revival. Do you remember I posted Paul Cain's prophecy from years ago - which (in my view) was a step towards fulfilment when the Lakeland Outpouring moved into the stadium? Well Todd Bentley had the exact prophecy played over the audio speakers just prior to Paul Cain coming up to speak to the thousands. Here's a clip of it - the video ends focusing on Paul who was sitting on the platform:

Here's a brief summary of what Paul Cain brought to the gathered thousands (thanks to Pete for being my faithful scribe!). He said;

"Whenever I look into Todd's eyes - I have never seen such a clean soul ...
The manifestations our part of my anointing. They will offend the heart of man who will not take the revival ... Hospital morgues will be emptied out ... All the stadiums will be filled with people on their faces worshipping God ... Will see people pressing forward. Evangelism will never be easier. Wholesale household salvation. Whole cities saved in a night. Even a whole nation in a day ... This is the end time revival prophesied by the prophets of old ... Todd is only heralding that message and revealing that it is to be the nameless and faceless ... If you don't defend yourself, I will raise someone up to defend you. Who would have thought it would be Todd Bentley".

Paul then prophesied over Jim Goll: "Dream - in front of unusual computer screen. I was going to give u a gift that came out of the screen... I number of years ago in 80s ur hearts were broken, scar tissue in ur hearts, cancers came, people scarred u 4 life. God showed me where ur scars were. And said 'only My Son can heal scar tissue.' If it were not 4 this night one of you would not be here ... in one year. "

He then turned to the camera and also speaks to Goll's wife. "Inappropriate prophecy is anhiliated now. This thing will be smitten and God will add some years to your life. Pray for James and Anne. Now praying for them. Removing the scars. Breaking the spirit of betrayal".

Paul then asked Todd if he could minister; "if God is still with him". Todd says "God is still with you". Paul Cain says 7 have diabetes. And that all 7 will be healed tonight!

Todd says the atmosphere changed in the arena when Paul Cain walked onto the platform.
Paul received the vision in central florida, and now it is happening. Paul asked to pray a father's blessing over the meeting - the seeds of healing in his heart from the 40s. Paul thanks God he has seen the beginnings of what he saw prophetically. Says he has met the new breed.

The angel of the Lord said to him "You have found what you were looking for." He has found Nathaniel in whom is no guile - in Todd Bentley. He wants to bless this. And to transfer and give to his brother everything that God ever deposited into Paul's life - everything Paul couldn't give away - he gives to Todd. A transfer of anointing.

Says that about 300 people having different heart problems being healed. Mass healings of every kind of heart trouble there is.

Todd himself then began to speak;

"Drink - drink - drink!! It's no fun to just watch and not participate! You've got to stay in the glory! ... I prophesied over 10 pastors from Ireland that a healing revival would break out. Something is happening! Pastor Brian called me from Belfast and they are in revival now! They are seeing miracles every night!

There was a child who died in a hospital and was dead for 15 minutes. The father called Pastor Brian who prayed and the child came back to LIFE and had NO BRAIN DAMAGE!! That is the second resurrection from the dead we have had! Dudley in Birmingham (UK) is going into it's second week of extended meetings! It is happening in Morningstar with Rick Joyner! This is contageous and it has only JUST BEGUN! GOD IS RELEASING HOT FIERY COALS OF REVIVAL! Resurrection from the dead will become a daily occurence!".

Janelle and Jesse - this one is for you! Todd asked;

"Orlando Florida - where are you!? You have to come! The fire is going to break out in Orlando!!".

Let's go on eagerly watching and hungering! God is coming! And if you can get to Lakeland, Florida - then for the love of God please go! At least go and see! Let's be excited! Prayer is being fulfilled! God is hearing the prayers of many decades! And as Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones said; "The Christian church would have been dead and finished centuries ago and many times over were it not for Revivals" - it looks like God is turning up to save His Church and make His Bride beautiful again!

Assurance We Are Righteous!!

Janelle wrote a very provocative and honest post recently called; "Condemnation, Anyone?". I really appreciated her openness - in a Christian world that is tempted to put on the mask of religion and smile glassily when asked how one is and say that wonderful adjective; "Fine!" - it was so refreshing to read. I've interacted with Janelle a couple of times which has been really helpful - and mainly around our area of disagreement concerning "Indwelling Sin". But I left a comment on her latest post expressing the view that despite our disagreements what is wonderful is;

"What we DO share in common is a desire to be more holy and more like Jesus Christ and see less of sin troubling us!!".

I must admit - while I am very persuaded by Rob Rufus's awesome teaching on us being the righteousness of God in Christ - and therefore condemnation has NO hold on us - my heart still very much (although increasingly less and less) is very much experientially with Janelle's blog. Especially if my sin has been a "whopper!". But I do think whatever our conclusions - both arguments carry dangers we should be aware of.

Rob Rufus's teaching carries obvious dangers that apparantly Rob never hears the end of! "You are giving them a license to sin if you preach this gospel of grace!". I think Rob's reply is classic;

"People don't need a license to sin - they are sinning anyway in your church!".

But I have recently been enjoying reading through my collection of Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones books and have been posting some quotes for those who are interested over here. I found this quote which I think highlights the danger of teaching the Puritan-esque "Indwelling Sin" and life-long eternal morification of the same.

"So let us be clear about this. It is no sign of humility, no mark of saintliness, to go into the Presence of God doubting whether God is forgiving you".

I am concerned that there may be a danger (and I stress 'maybe') that we can develop distorted views of mortifying sin and how we behave when we do sin - that we can start to feel "good" about feeling "bad". Or that we can effectively start to glory in condemnation. Surely that is re-living Old Covenant life! Why stop basking in guilt and condemnation? Why not get out the sackcloth and ashes? Dr Lloyd-Jones is clear. It is NO sign of humility to either come into the Presence of God doubting whether God has forgiven you - or even worse not come in at all.

I remember in my home church one of the things that used to irritate me the most was when we would be having a time of corporate worship or maybe a prayer meeting - which really was a highlight of our church life. My senior pastor was (and still is) an incredible man of prayer. To hear Stanley Jebb pray is to hear a psalmist pray! I really do think a book can be made of his prayers. Anyway ... I digress. I remember frequently entering into the Presence of God experientially and feel God drawing near in response to our worship and praise. And then ... a dear, sincere, well-meaning person would stand up and pray something like this; "Oh God ... we are such worms ... how dare we even crawl into Your Presence?!". And I swear - I would feel the Presence of God move off and away.

Please understand I am not saying there is not a place for real grief at our sin. Not because we have broken a law but because we have broken His heart. But let's make sure that we do not "glory in condemnation" and live as though there is a spirituality in proclaiming how sinful we are (which I do think is an inherent danger of accountability groups). Surely to live as such is to be in danger of trampling under foot the Son of God and somehow feeling that our sin is "too big" for the blood of the covenant to cover and thereby insulting the Spirit of grace?