Showing posts with label The Church. Show all posts
Showing posts with label The Church. Show all posts

Wednesday, April 04, 2012

Reflections on the Church in Great Britain

Some may remember Mark Driscoll's (the ex-head of Acts 24 ministries) comments made in an interview on the state of the church in the UK - my home country. The comments were less than complimentary. I was encouraged to read that D A Carson had reflections of his own on Driscoll's comments and they are helpful - brave is the man who takes on Carson's intellect!;

"In light of my friend Mark Driscoll's recent comments about pastoral ministry in Great Britain, I wanted to share a few of my own reflections on the diverse ministries that have prospered, or floundered, there. Between 1972 and 1996, I spent nine full years there, scattered over that range of years; and since then, I have been in the UK between two and six times every year. I am neither boasting nor complaining; I'm merely establishing that my knowledge of the country is not entirely superficial. I have no reason to doubt Mark's sincere concern for the gospel in the UK and for young ministers there. Nevertheless, you might be interested in hearing another perspective.

(1) Mark correctly observes the low state of genuine Christian confessionalism in the UK. Still, it varies considerably (as it does in the United States, though with lower figures over there). There's a ring around London in which close to 10 percent of the people go to church, many of them evangelicals; the percentage in Northern Ireland is higher, though falling. By contrast, in Yorkshire the percentage that goes to church once a month or more is 0.9 percent; evangelicals account for only 0.4 percent. Both figures are still falling. This is comparable to the state of affairs in, say, Japan.

(2) The phenomenon of the state church colors much of what is going on. Whether we like it or not, in England itself (the situation is different in Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales) the Church of England is the source of most heterodoxy and of much of the orthodoxy, as well as of everything in between. It has produced men like Don Cupitt and men like Dick Lucas. Exactly what courage looks like for the most orthodox evangelicals in that world is a bit different from what courage looks like in the leadership of the independent churches: their temptations are different, their sufferings are different. Although I have found cowardice in both circles, I have found remarkable courage in both circles, and the proportion of each has not been very different from what I've found on this side of the Atlantic.

(3) As for young men with both courage and national reach: I suppose I'd start with Richard Cunningham, currently director of UCCF. He has preached fearlessly in most of the universities and colleges in the UK, and is training others to do so; he has been lampooned in the press, faced court cases over the UCCF stance on homosexuality, and attracted newspaper headlines. Then there's Vaughan Roberts, rector of St Ebbe's, Oxford, in constant demand for his Bible teaching around the country. I could name many more. In Scotland one thinks of men like Willie Philip (and he's not the only one). Similar names could be mentioned in Wales and Northern Ireland.

(4) More important yet, the last few years in England have seen the invention and growth of the regional Gospel Partnerships. In my view, these are among the most exciting things going on in England at the moment. They bring together Church of England ministers and Independent ministers who are passionate about the gospel, who see the decline, and who are crossing many kinds of denominational and cultural divides to plant churches (regardless of whether the new churches turn out to be Anglican or Free), and raise up a new generation of preachers. They are broadly Reformed. They are annoying the mere traditionalists on both sides of the denominational divide; they are certainly angering some bishops; but they press on. In the North West Partnership, for example, they've planted about 30 churches in the last eight years, and the pace is accelerating. That may seem a day of small things, but compared with what was there ten years ago, this is pretty significant, especially as their efforts are beginning to multiply. Elsewhere, one church in London has about 17 plants currently underway, all led by young men. The minister at St Helen's-Bishopsgate, William Taylor, was formerly an officer in the British Army: there is not a wimpy bone in his body. The amount of flak he takes on is remarkable.

(5) But there is a bigger issue. We must not equate courage with success, or even youth with success. We must avoid ever leaving the impression that these equations are valid. I have spent too much time in places like Japan, or in parts of the Muslim world, where courage is not measured on the world stage, where a single convert is reckoned a mighty trophy of grace. I am grateful beyond words for the multiplication of churches in Acts 29, but I am no less grateful for Baptist ministers like my Dad, men who labored very hard and saw very little fruit for decades in French Canada, many of whom went to prison (their sentences totaled eight years between 1950 and 1952). I find no ground for concluding that the missionaries in Japan in the 20th century were less godly, less courageous, less faithful, than the missionaries in (what became) South Korea, with its congregations of tens of thousands. At the final Great Assize, God will take into account not only all that was and is, but also what might have been under different circumstances (Matt 11:20ff). Just as the widow who gave her mite may be reckoned to have given more than many multi-millionaires, so, I suspect, some ministers in Japan, or Yorkshire, will receive greater praise on that last day than those who served faithfully in a corner of the world where there was more fruit. Moreover, the measure of faithful service is sometimes explicitly tied in Scripture not to the quantity of fruit, measured in numbers, but to such virtues as self-control, measured by the use of one's tongue (James 3:1-6).

(6) Even where some ministries are wavering, it takes rare discernment to sort out when there should be sharp rebuke and when there should be encouragement. Probably there needs to be more of whichever of these two polarities we are least comfortable with! But I would not want to forget that the Jesus who can denounce hypocritical religious leaders in Matthew 22 is also the one of whom it is said, "He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he has brought justice through to victory. In his name the nations will put their hope" (Matt 12:19-21)---in fulfillment of one of the suffering servant passages. My read is that in some of the most challenging places of the world for gospel advance, godly encouragement is part of the great need of the day.

Tuesday, December 06, 2011

Social Networking is Transforming the Church!

I've been thinking for a while how social networking (firstly blogs and then Twitter and Facebook) have been forcing change upon churches and particularly church leadership. Some church leaders like C J Mahaney and Dave Harvey are seeing the social networking medium as negative - and are seeing the open forum that many victims of SGM have as "assaults" and "attacks".

But what if there was a way to see it positively?

My friends Dee and Debs over at the "Wartburg Watch" wrote their version of the new rules that the perhaps more authoritarian pastors can expect;

In case you haven't noticed, there is a new set of rules in effect. Here are SEVEN of them:

(1) No longer can a pastor control his own press.

(2) The pulpit is no longer a one-way microphone. Because of the internet and blogs, there are so many microphones that it has become a dialogue.

(3) While pastors may perceive things to be one way, they need to assume that people are going to dig down deep for the truth and not just take the pastor at his word.

(4) Some pastors have been clamoring to be noticed, and they should not be surprised that some who come and take a look may not like what they see and dare to say so.

(5) Remember, anything a pastor puts on the internet lasts forever. If he attempts to remove the evidence, he needs to keep in mind that folks these days are savvy. They are documenting information BEFORE it is removed, and it will show up again…

(6) We highly recommend that pastors refrain from editing out portions of their sermons they put online or altering their transcripts. People are listening and taking notes…

(7) If you chastise from the pulpit, expect to be chastised in a comparable forum like the internet.

Guys, it's a whole new ballgame. Batter up!

Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Vision of Church!

I am always on the hunt for faith-building definitions of church. In this day and age there seems to be so much to affect our belief in the Bride of Christ. Denominations make much of changing of a name (confusing to me!). Others downgrade their once held positions. It's vital to hold to a Word-based expression that inevitably leads to glorious reaching of the lost.


"Sadly, many churches in the UK struggle to catch this vision. The reason, I believe, has to do with their foundations. Many are built fundamentally on pastoral foundations. This means that the leaders of these churches see it as their duty to only care for ‘their people’, not necessarily to be released to go and reach new people. Members of this kind of church see having their needs met as the primary reason for being in the church. If this doesn’t happen then they become easily disappointed. They may well even leave and go and find another church in the hope that they might do a better job! They may even object when the church starts to grow, realising that the more people there are, the less likely it is that attention will be given to them!

If, however, your church is built on apostolic, prophetic foundations as described for example in Ephesians 2:19-22, your church has at its very root a passion to be sent and to send. In other words, we exist not only to meet the needs of our existing members, but to constantly desire to go and meet the needs of those who are not yet a part of us".

Oh for more churches with this apostolic/prophetic foundations!

Wednesday, August 31, 2011

Church Membership: Any Exemptions?

The SGM story continues to evolve in it's bumpy manner.

I think one of the difficulties here is that the Word of God does not lay down specific instructions for every event that the church may meet. Rather it lays down guidelines - but just as importantly the Holy Spirit has fallen upon His church and inspires, guides, empowers and prompts the servant ministries that the risen Christ has given. Word and Spirit are both needed to stave off disaster!

The SGM family (especially those at Covenant Life Church) seem to be incredibly upset by the decision that C J Mahaney made to not continue attending CLC but instead go to his friend Mark Dever's church nearby in Washington. Here's a comment from the SGM blog from an CLC member;

Jeff:

Andrew, CJ is a member of CLC, and part of the membership agreement states that you will regularly attend YOUR church. I can understand if you wanted to go to a Sunday night meeting at another church, but to leave the church you are a member of to attend another church full time is against the membership agreement. CJ is supposedly bound by the same agreement as the other members of the church. If not, please explain why. If the pastors agreed to him leaving CLC and attending another church then they should have asked for him to resign his membership at CLC. No partiality, no "unique circumstances". CJ is as accountable to Josh as I am. If he doesn't like the way Josh is handling the situation then he is free to leave and move his membership elsewhere, just as his sons have. I am really growing weary of the doublespeak coming out of SGM. Let CJ stand or fall on the system he has created over the last 30 plus years.

The "unique situation" that SGM's Director of Comms refers to is the fact that C J has made this decision by himself (although with "support" from the SGM Board). What is clear in the comments is the issue here is one of authority.

Namely - who covers C J? He is not a pastor. He is a member of CLC. Therefore technically (as Brent Detweiler has consistently argued) C J is under the authority of the Covenant Life pastors. However he does not seem to be acting as though he appreciates that authority and is responding to their guidance and advice. Does the "President and Chairman" then have any form of accountability?

Who knows the right answer - and indeed who has the clout to make C J Mahaney do what they feel is best? He doesn't seem to be a chap who responds well to correction and advice if he doesn't want to do it. I do think the issue here is consistency and justice. Namely;

If an ordinary member of an SGM church was in trouble of some sort (we all agree Mahaney is not under disciplinary action) then would they have the freedom to go to another non-SGM church for a bit if they felt like it?

All my SGM friends are very clear (and my experience matches this). If you miss one Sunday you may get away with it but if you start missing regular Sundays then you will be called to account as to your whereabouts. So if SGM members can't get away with this - then should C J?

Friday, August 26, 2011

The Report is out on SGM!

The long-awaited report from "Ambassadors of Reconciliation" is out for the SGM Board of Directors. For those who this saga only concerns C J Mahaney's return to public ministry - they will be disappointed. The AoR have left this decision and delegated back to the SGM Board - Dave Harvey - the acting President - accepted this. As I understand it, a panel of a few SGM pastors and one Board member will be called to deal with Mahaney.

I've read the report carefully and find it actually quite encouraging - for two reasons.

One of the key problems with SGM for me has been their reluctance to "pursue reconciliation" with those many who have left or been kicked out of their ranks. The attitude of SGM seems to be "if you've left us - it's your fault". Here's the examples that come to my mind;

1. Larry Tomczak has spent a good part of a decade seeking reconciliation with C J. It was C J who said; "Let's do it!".

2. Brent himself has been reaching out to C J - as I read it, there was no move on C J's part until the documents began coming.

3. The two families from Fairfax Church who suffered awful child abuse had no course but to resort to posting their stories on "SGM Survivors" - granted the church leaders had their "Family Meeting" expressing regret and reaching out recently.

4. My own story was only closed and reconciliation brought thanks to Steve W (my friend from SGM Survivors) moves via Pat Ennis and Bob Kauflin. I had no contact from the UK SGM leaders until I personally emailed Pete Griesley (a now SGM Board member) on the back of Steve's mails.

That is why I am encouraged that the AoR team advise;

"Before engaging the help of other Christians ... we remind the SGM Board members of their biblical responsibilities to INITIATE action for reconciliation ... It does not matter whether we believe we have been sinned against ... or if the other person has something against us - we are to make EVERY effort to make peace.

Note also our responsibility to go and be reconciled is not excused simply because another indicates he does not want to meet".

Interesting - after I wrote to the SGM Board after my "excommunication" detailing my horror at the way I had been treated, I was sent a short note by Dave Harvey devolving all responsibility to Peter Griesley. Peter himself sent me a terse email noting they felt I was "wrong" but they would meet me "if I wished". At the time I was not willing or able to meet any SGM leaders after I had experienced my first (and only I hope) excommunication and informed him so. In Pat Ennis's opinion - that refusal to meet devolved them of all responsibility in my case.

I must note - Peter Griesley has since very graciously apologised for his email which I deeply appreciated.

But I am glad that AoR have noted this as a recommendation. I really hope SGM act on it - I think gestures of reconciliation from the leaders would have healed many past splits far sooner.
They go on regarding reconciliation - this is a REALLY good statement;

"Scripture does not excuse us because we are fearful our words might be twisted. Scripture does not excuse us if we think the other person may not listen. Scripture does not excuse us if the other party has widely shared his complaints against us. Scripture does not excuse us if the whole world has read about the complaints against us in public media ... thus our first counsel to the Board of Directors is to make every effort to "go and be reconciled".

It's good - not just for SGM - but for any Christian who finds themselves split from other fellow Christians. Now I suspect that the "anti-SGM"-ites will seize on "every effort" and be waiting for pounce for giving up in the case of Brent Detweiler. The AoR report doesn't allow that;

"Although we heard from the Board and observed in the documents (Brent's) that C J has made numerous offers to meet with Brent that were not accepted, we were not convinced that every effort to reconcile has been made by the Board".

Even once "every effort" has been exhausted - then the AoR report allows for calling in "others". So - C J Mahaney ... is he or isn't he?

Essentially AoR won't make the decision for SGM (cop-out maybe - some may feel!). But I can understand why they take this step. SGM by-laws state that only Board members may remove a board member (which C J is both President and Chairman). They do suggest a due process to consider this (which Dave Harvey states SGM will accept) which is;

A blind draw to select some SGM pastors and one Board member to decide on C J's eligibility.

Haven't encountered that technique before! But it seems a fair approach. Brent and C J will both be permitted and invited to come and present their cases and steps taken from there. It does seem a bit "one-sided" in terms of Brent appearing before an "SGM" panel - knowing the weight that C J holds over most of SGM. But there will be an "independent facilitator" present (nominated by AoR) who will bring a degree of neutrality which I think is important.

One final point which is VERY important;

"One disappointment for us was the lack of proclaiming God's grace to one another that seems apparent in this dispute".

I am glad this was stated. I read Brent's documents a couple of times and to be honest was left with a rather sour taste in my mouth. These sort of men - C J, Brent - are my heroes. I sometimes day dream about what it would be like spending time with them - being able to email them and so on. The email after email (with the cursory; "Hope you are enjoying God's grace") between the men involved seemed to me to question why we need the devil as an accuser - with all these accusations and counter-accusations.

"When confessions were made (whether orally or in writing) we observed no evidence of proclaiming God's forgiveness to the one who confessed. The Scriptures teach otherwise".

They cite 2 Samuel 12 where Nathan convicts but proclaims forgiveness, Psalm 32:5, Proverbs 28:13, Luke 7:48 (he who is forgiven much loves much) and 1 John 1:9. There is an important discussion to be had (I think) about the "indwelling sin" emphasis but this surely is an essential element that AoR should bring. If you are going to meet in accountability groups and the sorts of things SGM do - at the very least, proclaim forgiveness!

It is done!

I really hope and pray this report brings healing, reconciliation to these dear people and they can learn, grow and get on with planting churches across this much needed desperately dry world. Especially more in the UK!

Sunday, August 14, 2011

The Groanings of Creation?

Most of us in the United Kingdom (and friends from across the world) have been following the news over this past week with horror - watching the riots that have taken place in our nation's capital of London, my own home city of Birmingham and other cities. The police have been stretched to the hilt trying to contain and control the violence as well as bringing the criminals to justice.

I had some quite frightening personal experience of the riots on Monday and Tuesday night. I was due to be working night shifts on intensive care and was asked to help out with the hospital's Major Incident Control team. We were informed by the police that there was some talk on Twitter that the looters were planning to "hit the hospital" as it stands opposite the city's police station. So we had to put the hospital onto lockdown (literally locking all doors) and watch and wait as a couple of hundred youths milled around the hospital wrecking things.

Many of the nation's population are of the fervent opinion these are mindless criminals and deserve to behind bars. Maybe that is true - and something for the courts and the judges to decide. But watching the news, I felt a slightly different view;

"For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now ... For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are" - (Romans 8:19)

While watching on TV - and actually looking into the faces of these hooded young people - I felt nothing but sympathy and empathy with them. They are angry! They are frustrated! They are bored! Do they need a water cannon to beat them back (as some bloggers have suggested)? Do they need a jail sentence to further cement their anger against society?

Or is there an alternative?



To my mind and un-trained theological understanding - this verse in Romans speaks directly to the situation we are facing today here in the United Kingdom. I saw groaning and suffering in the face of these looters. If they had a preferable future to work towards, they would not be willing to throw their lives and futures away for the sake of a few iPods and laptops and trainers. They would have hope! Not in a human government but a glorious God who is out-lived and out-worked in a glorious Church. The manifest sons of God - walking in the manifest Presence of a heavenly Father who loves them. A church who regularly demonstrates the outbreaking of heaving in a time-space world through signs and wonders and miracles - healing the sick, mending the broken-hearted, reaching the poor.

The world has been waiting and it is getting tired of waiting. It sees a church that gets involved in petty squabbles. In authoritarian leaders who feel it is okay to abuse their followers. In hypocrisy. In sexual and financial misdemenours. In pride and arrogance. The world is tired of waiting and it is getting impatient! And this impatience (I think) is expressing itself through violence. British justice will lock these youths up if they find them. But will that solve the issue? Locking them away for a few months/years? They will have spent that time with fellow criminals and will emerge back into society possibly more angry and more resentful than ever before.

My heart aches for the unveiling of the sons of God. That finally these youths would see a church not to be ashamed of but to be proud of, intrigued by, broken by. One of my favourite pasttimes is to visit Soul Survivor (a youth conference in Somerset that I went to twice in my youth) and I think is doing a great work. It never fails to move me to tears to see the leadership issue a call to salvation and see hundreds of young people come forward in response! Surely we should be seeing that but more - time after time - city after city across the nation! Am I excusing their sin and misdeeds? No - but I AM stating all this was covered at the Cross of Christ and it is time the church demonstrated the glorious freedom of that.

Sunday, July 17, 2011

Why Do We Bother? To Build A House!

I was immensely blessed to be sent a box full of old videos and audiotapes by Rob and Glenda Rufus last week - that contain some solid gold treasures! Rob had carefully collected some videos by Kathryn Kuhlman that are just amazingly provoking. But sneaked in there was an amazing tape from Brighton 1998 (the now finished "Together on a Mission" conference run by Newfrontiers). This was the same year that Simon Petit preached his movement-changing "Remember the Poor" message. But the tape Rob Rufus sent me was called;

"Revival Seasons require Oil-Filled Leaders" by Frank Damazio

I believe my dear friend Pete Day was at that conference and said it was powerfully visited by the Presence of God - maybe on the same level as when Rob himself was there in 2006 and 2007 - maybe moreso?! But I have been listening to that tape on the way to and from work and Frank Damazio made a quote that grabbed me;

"We will never reach a city - unless we build a house - and we will never build a house unless we build great people".

Newfrontiers used to talk about "restoring the house" but have been called on; "It's too small a thing". However we cannot forget that the house still needs to be built. This is one reason why Dave Devenish writes that apostles and prophets are so essential! Without Ephesians 4 Ministries, the foundations are shaky.

I was told recently that my post on Joshua Harris ("Pastor of Pastors") was linked by Christianity Today - which was a surprise! It just shows you never know who is visiting your blog and reading. But it made me re-evaluate my interest and concern in the things affecting SGM at the moment. The fact is - back in 2000 when we first heard C J Mahaney speak at Stoneleigh Bible Week as a guest speaker I sensed something special. Nothing else would have persuaded me to move to Bristol and join the church plant there - and moreso persuade my entire family to make the move too!

Yes, the concerns and problems I had eventually outweighed my love for SGM and events outpaced me so I had to move on. But I still do believe C J Mahaney is incredibly gifted in his singular prophetic ministry to remind Christians of the Cross. I firmly believe that ministry would be best tied to a true apostolic ministry like Larry Tomczak's (which is why we look forward to November with great interest!).

I was asked what would be the ideal resolution in all this? I can't really answer that - because only God knows but surely the most God-glorifying answer would be a stronger house with true Ephesians 4 Ministries (apostles and prophets - not a "Board of Directors"), true Holy-Spirit inspired ministry firing preaching of the Word of God absolutely devoted to mission through church-planting to all people groups of the world. May it be so!

Tuesday, May 17, 2011

Probably No Need for God?

I was unfortunate enough to read Kevin DeYoung's twitter from the "Gospel Coalition" on my Twitter feed and it (to put it mildly) irked me. He wrote a thought-provoking post called "It's Probably Not the Worship Style". A liberal church leader had asked his thoughts about whether his church was not growing because they had an organ - and should they upgrade their music styles. DeYoung, I think rightly, puts music style in it's place.

Guitars and drums do NOT equal charismatic worship. They also do NOT guarantee church growth (necessarily). And they do NOT guarantee the Presence of God necessarily.

So DeYoung shared some thoughts in the guise of questions that he clearly thinks WILL grow churches. Questions he calls "harder and deeper". Here they are;

"Is the gospel faithful preached?
Is the Bible taught with clarity and passion?
Are the sermons manifestly rooted in a text of Scripture?
Do the elders/pastors and deacons meet the qualifications for church office laid out in the New Testament?
Are the sacraments faithfully administered and protected?
Is church discipline practiced?
Do the elders exercise personal care over the flock?
Are there good relationships among the staff and other leaders?
Is the worship service put together thoughtfully and carried out with undistracting excellence (as much as possible).
Do the people in the congregation sing the songs with gusto or are they going through the motions?
Is a high bar set for church membership?
Are the people of the church engaged in personal ministry?
Is the congregation marked by increasing prayer and evangelism?
Do the pastors believe in the complete trustworthiness of all of Scripture?
Do they take adequate time for study and preparation?
Do they truly believe and eagerly rejoice in their church’s/denomination’s statement of faith, creeds, and confessions?
Are their lives examples of personal holiness?".

Notice anything? What occurred to me was the fact that none of these questions require the manifest Presence of God by His Spirit moving on the congregation (Ephesians 2:22). None of these questions will make non-believers fall down and say "God is truly among you!" (1 Corinthians 14:25). The only question related to worship asks whether the congregation is singing "gustily". Terry Virgo writes in his new book; "The Spirit-Filled Church";

"We are coming to meet God, and therefore we should anticipate we meet with God, anything less is merely being religious".

R T Kendall warned in his book; "The Sensitivity of the Spirit" that;

"If the Holy Spirit left your church today, you'd probably carry on worshipping as if nothing happened".

I think I can appreciate DeYoung's aim in writing like this but to me it seems the whole point of church has been missed. Preaching of course is vital - we need to enjoy the Ephesians 4 Ministries God has given His church and come to learn more from His Word. Worship should be far more than simply "sung gustily". Otherwise are we really any different than a secular concert? I sing gustily along with some of my favourite celebrity popstars if I go to their concerts! Of course we need good relationships - but why are we any different to social clubs? And church discipline? If God's Presence was really among His people in power - as in the book of Acts - "great fear" was present among the people because they knew they worshipped a real, interventionist, holy and loving God.

DeYoung asks first of all; "Is the gospel faithfully preached?". But let us not forget the Word of God itself - and the true gospel;

" ... for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction" - (1 Thessalonians 1:5 - NASB).

Sunday, February 27, 2011

Terry Virgo on the Spirit-Filled Church

This is a further interview between Simon and Terry Virgo on the life of the Spirit in church. I have transcribed two outstanding short interviews on the baptism of the Holy Spirit - a key doctrine abandoned by many churches sadly these days - here and here. But the mistake that many made in the charismatic movement of the 1970's was to believe that the experience and encounter with the Holy Spirit was a personal feeling for them as individuals and did not play out in mission or church life.

Here is the interview - the video is below;

Simon Virgo: How does that affect church life when different people experience the baptism in the Holy Spirit and how would you want it to affect church life?

Terry Virgo: Well I think it is important because the church is the place where the Holy Spirit dwells. We are told in Ephesians 2 that the church is the "dwelling place of God in the Spirit".

So the church should be open to the phenomenal manifestation of the Presence of the Holy Spirit.

So for me when I was first baptised in the Holy Spirit at the beginning of the Charismatic Movement - some would say well that is a private experience. And they would use expressions like; "You now have your private prayer language" and you may want to do that somewhere but don't mess with the church!

Simon: Why weren't you satisfied with that?

Terry: Well because the Presence of the Spirit is our huge privilege and it says that the manifestation of the Spirit is for the common good. So it is for all of us together to experience the Presence of the Spirit with us! We are not meant to live in a church where the Spirit is not manifest and then go away to charismatic conferences and then come back to church where there is no manifestation of the Spirit. It is obvious that you gather to the Presence of the Holy Spirit.

Simon: That sense of experiencing the Presence of God and living in the good of that - what does that look like in church life? How would you expect to see that manifested?

Terry: I think that when we come together, we come to the certain promise - Jesus said; "I won't leave you orphans - I will come to you.

So when we come to church and begin to worship - we are looking for the awareness of the Presence of the Spirit here.

I love that song of Matt Redman's that says; "Praise is waiting for you in this place". We are beginning to praise;

And we are waiting for the phenomena of the Presence of the Spirit.

We are not coming just to sing a few songs. We are not coming just to hear preaching. We are coming to meet with Jesus - we are coming to encounter our risen Lord.

Simon: So there is an expectation of an encounter?

Terry: Absolutely! So church without the Presence of the Lord - doing church without Jesus is terribly boring! So we want the manifestation of His Presence!

Simon: I remember you saying before that church can have almost a synagogue-model to it where the synagogue was the place where the people of God gathered to the Book but you would covet rather a Temple-like model where we would not gather to the Book but rather to the Presence of God.

Terry: Absolutely and I think going back to the Psalms and the building of the Tabernacle and then the Temple - this was the privilege of God's people - that God was dwelling among them! That glory was among them - that is what it is to be God's people!

This is what makes us distinct - His Presence is with us!

Synagogues were initially built when Israel was taken into captivity. They were away from the Temple and they build synagogues around the sacred Scriptures, to retain their distinctives, to remember the teachings and the promises - of course. But NOW - we are His Temple since Jesus came - He was the Temple - and now we are the Temple of His Presence. His Presence is manifestly with us.

So we are not looking for synagogue life as you say - we are looking for Temple life where ANYTHING can happen. God is with us!

4d. Baptism into Christ and the Holy Spirit from Terry Virgo on Vimeo.

Sunday, October 17, 2010

"The Purpose of the Second Coming" by Bob Mumford

This afternoon I was hugely irritated when our internet broadband, television and phone went down thanks to Virgin Media - from 12:00 to 20:00. However I decided to use the time profitably and type up a New Wine Magazine article from 1974 by Bob Mumford on the Second Coming of Christ. I find this issue one of incredible significance - because it seems to me that the church uses the 2nd coming as an "escape hatch" when things get tough. Rather than fighting and becoming militant about what we believe in - many look to the skies and say with a sigh; "Ah well - Jesus will come soon".

As Bob Mumford clearly shows - the second coming of Christ was never meant to be the escape hatch for the church. He may have written the article in 1974 but I still think the teaching carries much truth for today. Here it is;

"The 2nd Coming is more than a divine rescue mission

As a serious and eager seminary student, I was assigned the research topic of “The Second Advent of our Lord Jesus Christ”. I was taken aback when reading in one of the massive reference volumes I was using, “Every serious student of prophecy would do well to remember that no one has ever accurately interpreted scriptures which pertain to future events”. The experiences of the following years have proven that admonition to be exceedingly accurate. As a result, I have spoken little about prophetic events and above all, felt the necessity not to be dogmatic. I should however make it clear from the beginning that I hold to a literal, visible return of Jesus Christ in glory (Acts 1:9-11). I also believe that the usual dispensational and popular teachings concerning the rapture, marriage supper, tribulation etc have been grossly misinterpreted and soul-ishly interpreted. As we approach the end of the age, pre-, post- and mid-tribulational interpretations that accompany them will undergo major adjustments. There will be many facts and events and texts that we should have seen but in reality did not. These new ingredients will modify much of our understanding concerning prophetic events. As the prophet Hosea explained, “Then shall we know if we follow on to know the Lord” (Hosea 6:3).

A simple illustration of the prophecies and events of Christ’s first advent will serve to illustrate what I mean. It was written about the origin of the Messiah, “Out of Egypt I have called My Son” (Matthew 2:15). “That He was born in Bethlehem” (Micah 5:2). “Yet He was from Nazareth”. Can you see the impossibility of accurately interpreting all the biblical facts in proper perspective until the circumstances of His birth were known? How could the readers of the prophecies possibly understood that His parents were from Nazareth and that was to be His home? And that due to a decree for taxation, Mary was taken by Joseph to Bethlehem where Jesus was born? Also, that being warned in a dream not to return to Nazareth the family of Jesus fled to Egypt where they were later led to return? How clear it seems to us now, but how confusing to the prophets and prophetic interpreters prior to the unfolding of the events.
Anyone browsing casually in a religious bookstore will quickly be overwhelmed by the overabundance of printed material of different theories and interpretations about the 2nd coming. Even the general attitude and approach of the Scriptures can seem confusing. The time of Christ’s return is unknown (Matthew 24:36-42); but the concept of imminence (that He may come today) has always been a truth held dear to the heart of the church (James 5:8). On the other hand, examination of many scriptures tend to give us another view; that certain events, such as spiritual maturity in the church, world evangelism, establishment of His government and kingdom etc must be accomplished PRIOR to His coming. This seems to exclude any possibility of immediate return.

Bible truths are often set in opposition to each other – like parallel lines – which act as balancing factors in the life of the church. “Behold I come quickly” is balanced by the command; “Occupy until I come”. These parallel lines can only meet in the infinite Creator.

Purpose of His Coming.

It will not be my purpose to examine the reality or circumstances of His coming but to try and shed some light on the purpose of His coming. We cannot dwell on the entire purpose of the 2nd coming but rather examine what I feel to be one major purpose of His coming.

Unfortunately much of the popular teaching that centres on events in the world that will preceed the coming of Christ (i.e. wars, famines, natural disasters, the rise of the antichrist and satanic activity) has tended to make us believe that Christ is coming back to snatch the church out of the world just before it self-destructs! For the cataclysmic-minded believers it has become a divine rescue mission to save the persecuted church in it’s last gasp. If we examine the 2nd Coming in the light of the purpose of the church, the bride of Christ and her mission on the earth, it takes on a very different meaning. The coming of the Lord Jesus is the consummation or completion of God’s plan for the church through the ages. It is a victory celebration rather than a rescue mission!

As the Apostle Paul speaks of the Lord’s coming in 2 Thessalonians 1:8, he writes of a fiery judgement that will come upon the world. Then in verse 10, he speaks of Christ’s coming as it will relate to the church. He says; “ ... He shall come to be glorified in His saints”.

The concept of a spiritual coming in the saints prior to His physical coming for His saints is overlooked by most people.

Paul clearly teaches that Jesus is coming for a bride that is “glorious ... not having any spot or wrinkle or any such thing” (Ephesians 5:27). This is Christ revealed in the saints. This same theme is carried on elsewhere in Scripture. Galatians 4:19 reads; “My little children of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you”. Acts 3:21 states; “Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world begun”. And James 5:8 admonishes us; “Be patient therefore brethren until the coming of the Lord. Behold the husbandman (God) waiteth for the precious fruits of the earth and hath long patience for it, until He receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stabilise your hearts; for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh”.

Many of us have been given the idea that Christ’s coming is what defeats the foes and establishes His kingdom. Jesus said however that all power (authority) had been given to Him in heaven and in earth; and because of that we were to go into all nations and disciple them. Rather than thinking of Christ’s coming as an event that accomplishes His purpose in the earth, let us consider His coming as God’s consummating His eternal purpose by that very event.

Concerning the purpose of His coming, Bakers Theological Dictionary says,

“So Jesus’ parousia (coming) is not the decisive event of the gospel; it is rather the inevitable sequel of the decisive event which took place with His death and resurrection. The time of it’s occurrence does not matter so much as the fact that it’s occurrence is assured!”.

Sequence of Events:

It is this inevitable sequence of events which begins with His death and resurrection and sees Him establish a kingdom on the earth (His revelation in the saints) that is consummated by His visible return for the saints. At this present time He is in the process of establishing that spiritual kingdom in the earth. Psalm 110:1 is one of the verses most quoted by New Testament writers. It speaks even to the casual reader that there is a purpose to be accomplished by Christ being seated at the right hand of God the Father. “He (Christ) will sit there until ...”. I make your enemies your footstool”. A similar theme is carried throughout the New Testament ... “Until” ... the redemption of the purchased possession (Ephesians 1:14) ... the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6) ... the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 6:14) ... the harvest of tares and wheat (Matthew 13:30) ... we all come in the unity of the faith (Ephesians 4:13). The same Psalm is quoted in Acts 2:35. “Until I make thy foes thy footstool”. This expresses Peter’s understanding of Psalm 110:1. Jesus ascension to the right hand of the Father would continue until something that that approximated Christ’s victory in the human situation had been accomplished here on the earth.

There is a present kingdom just as surely as there is a future one. But the kingdom of God must be proclaimed, received and established in some degree prior to the coming of the King of that kingdom to rule. Matthew 24:14 teaches us this much.

Does it seem incongruous to believe that the body, which is His church and bride be won, sanctified and prepared before He comes for her?

Is it not logical to assume that the kingdom in spiritual form be established – literally established – on earth in the saints before God reveals His King and His kingdom? (Revelation 5:10). New Testament grammar teaches us that His coming (parousia) is to be a revelation (unveiling) of Jesus Christ. Somehow and His own spectacular way, God will reveal Jesus His Kingdom and church and bride by the events of His parousia.

The Place of the Church:

Whatever God has yet to do in the earth, He purposes to do it through and by means of a militant church, an advancing kingdom, a united body which is rising to the challenge!

“Thy people will be willing in the day of thy power” says the Psalmist in 110:3. The years of spiritual warfare, evangelism, missionary endeavour, combined with the present global outpouring of the Holy Spirit, cause me to know that God is setting the stage to consummate His purpose in the earth by the revelation and return of His King – which has been delayed ... until!
Let’s turn to the book of Revelation for a glimpse of what I am trying to express.

“Behold He cometh with clouds and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him; and all the kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him” (Revelation 1:7).

This is the literal return of the One who was taken in the clouds (Acts 1:9-11). What an unveiling of God’s eternal purpose in Christ, His Son! What a sudden consternation and embarrassment to the world which has rejected God’s Son and abused His church! What joy and triumph for those who belong to Him – for those called according to His purpose! As the writers of Hebrews says; “ ... and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation”.
Whatever the unique turn of prophetic events or unexpected developments in the church or in the nations; those who have come to see the purpose of His coming, will not be preoccupied with dates, signs or dispensational charts or attempting to place the label of antichrist on a world figure.

In Revelation 22:17 we find these words;

“And the Spirit and the bride say come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely”.

As one who longs for His coming, but also sees the purpose of His delay, the Lord began to say something to me from this verse. When the Spirit and the bride say; “Come ... Come Lord Jesus” = it will be then that those who are sensitive to that which the Holy Spirit is saying will know that His coming is in fact very near. The Spirit and the Bride are now saying; “Unity ... plurality ... submission ... obedience”. The Spirit is seeking to draw us – each of us – into a belonging – a kind of spiritual community if you will. All of these words plus the quickening pace of the pain and peril of the day in which we live, cause me to listen carefully to hear a cry – not just teaching – but a cry in the Spirit among the beloved that groans and sighs. This cry when heard and interpreted will say; “Come, oh come Lord Jesus – the Spirit and the bride are ready – come Lord Jesus!”. When we hear this, sense this, perceive it among the beloved, it is then that we can know that His purpose for delay is nearly completed. The bride has made herself ready. The Holy Spirit who was given to present her faultless before Him in her wedding garment agrees .... “Yes she is ready! Come Lord Jesus!”.

“He which testifies those things saith, surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so. Come Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20).

Thursday, August 05, 2010

"An Honest Conversation" - EMA Assembly 2010 - Part 1

I was hoping to go to the EMA Assembly in London this year with Pete Day but however our diaries did not allow it (the story of my life with conferences these days!). The topic of the Holy Spirit is one very close to my heart and to know that Terry Virgo was invited to take part in the following discussion made it a must-hear for me. John Piper and Wayne Grudem were also speakers - so I cannot wait to get onto hearing those sessions!

For now here's Part 1 of the Panel Discussion. Terry Virgo of course, Hugh Palmer - Rector of All Souls Langham Place and Liam Goligher from Duke Street Baptist Church. John Coles was the only one I was not familiar with - he is the Director of New Wine. The discussion was chaired by Vaughan Roberts from St Ebbes in Oxford.

“An Honest Conversation” – The Ministry of the Spirit in the Local Church
EMA Assembly – Terry Virgo, John Coles, Hugh Palmer and Liam Goligher.


Vaughan Roberts (V.R): Well welcome to this afternoon’s session and what we have called “An Honest Conversation”. I am grateful to my conversation partners who I will welcome in just a moment. First though a word of introduction from my own local context. As some of you will know I am a pastor in Oxford and on one end of Pembroke Street there is St Ebbes Church and at the other end of Pembroke Street there is St Aldates Church. We hold much in common and have done for many many years. I have been a member for 20 years I guess and over the years there have been occasional moments of disagreement and tension particularly I think among the student members of the congregation over the charismatic debates and discussions.

When Charlie Cleverly (who is the Rector of St Aldates) arrived about 8 years ago I went to see him and we decided we would meet regularly to pray and we included Andrew Winkfield-Digby who is the vicar of St Andrews church in the city. It is a very high powered gathering as you can imagine and on one occasion I turned up at Andrew’s house at 08:00, Charlie turned up at 08:00 at my house and Andrew turned up at 08:00 at Charlie’s house which is where we were all meant to be. We do normally manage to meet every 5 or 6 weeks or so and during that time a very warm and close friendship has built up between me and Charlie. We are brothers in Christ and we love Him. Our passion above all else is to make Him known and to see people converted. There are things we have been able to do together as we long to see the city of Oxford reached with the gospel. So Charlie has started a mission called “Love Oxford” which has been a gathering of evangelical church leaders trying to set up 1 a year a large gathering in one of the local parks where we put aside secondary differences and Christ and His Cross are preached. Thousands gather and it is a tremendous opportunity for witness to the Lord Jesus whom we all worship.

During the course of our friendship there have been other things we have chatted about that we disagree on sharply. We reckon there are some things that we cannot easily do together. We have not planted a church together. We don’t do our ministry training courses together. In Charlie’s language, he puts it; “In some things there is not sufficient spiritual DNA” and there are some things that we can do together. One of the happy things we have done together from time to time is to share a platform and have a discussion from time to time rather like this – and the fact it was so needed came home to me when people were surprised to see us not only on the same platform but to see that we were friends. In that discussion we were able to affirm things we agreed on and from the context of brotherhood and friendship – to have things that we sometimes disagreed on. We both felt that was a healthy thing to happen. What has occurred over the past few decades through different types of evangelicalism is sometimes divides through – not particularly any great difference in theology – but we just don’t know one another. We have our own conferences, our own minister’s meetings and we have found how helpful it is to meet with one another.

I hope we are going to replicate something of that this afternoon. Most of us are local church pastors and all the time I hope we will be thinking; “What is it we can do locally on the ground with other pastors from other churches that might have other views on some things we might view as secondary and other things we might view as very significant indeed. What can we do together? And what can’t we do together? Can we at least discuss and talk? So I am very grateful to my four friends for joining me this afternoon and they will be known to many of you.

• Hugh Palmer – the Rector of All Souls, Langham Place and the Chairman of New Word Alive.

• Terry Virgo who leads the Newfrontiers network of churches around this country and internationally as well.

• Liam Goligher from Duke Street in Richmond and conference speaker from all over the world as well.

• And John Coles who leads the New Wine network.

Thank you for coming. I am going to pray as we begin our discussion.

“Loving Father thank You very much for our unity with all those who are born again. Our unity with Christ and our unity with one another by the Spirit. We grieve over differences sometime and divisions and we need real discernment to know when we should be affirming unity and pushing secondary things to one side and when we should be engaging with differences that really matter and the need to be talked through. We pray we will do that this afternoon and do it in a right way and we pray this kind of thing will happen increasingly throughout this land for the glory of Your Name. Amen”.

We have had opportunities to chat some of us a few months ago and some of us just now and we all agree that that there are increasing divisions among evangelicals and an increasing breadth has emerged and certain truths need to be reaffirmed in the wake of this increasing breadth and I would be interested if I could just go along and start with you – Hugh. What are the key truths that we evangelicals need to reaffirm in the face of worrying breadth on these matters?

Hugh Palmer (H.P): I definitely include the sufficiency of the Scriptures. Unless we have come to any common mind on the Scriptures it is hard to see where we can go further. Certainly within evangelicalism there seems to be all kinds of worrying trends at least among those who want the label of evangelical. There seems to be all kinds of not looking at the Scriptures, the Person and Work of Jesus which has got to include His atonement. Some of the ideas that come around the idea of penal substitution recently within evangelical frames is something we need to talk through. Some of the uncertainty around the judgement and wrath of God – and I would think we would need to revisit areas of regeneration and repentance and at times a temptation to indulge in a repentance-free Christianity.

V.R: Thank you Hugh. Terry – do you want to pick up from there?

Terry Virgo (T.V): Okay I would endorse all that has gone before. I would say the authority of Scripture and all that is included in that. That has to be foundational and fundamental to everything we do and say beyond question. Maybe in our individualistic generation the relevance of the local church as a place where you work out your Christianity not as a loner – when we say Scripture is the final authority which we wholly endorse – the danger of every person becoming his own interpreter can be dangerous. We need to dignify the local church with its own authority so we don’t all become separate entities having our own interpretation of the authority of the Scripture. So much of Christianity in the New Testament is worked out with one another with all those “one another” verses – “correcting one another, encouraging one another” etc. I guess another thing I would perhaps mention is that I feel there needs to be a very clear foundation of grace in the churches. I think sometimes the gospel is complicated by the addition of laws and rules which sometimes really confuse our relationship with Jesus having been settled. We are accepted in Christ and we build our lives from there.

Perhaps one thing we must never drift from is the call of the local church to be involved in world evangelization. Even in our (correctly I think) talking about the things we are talking about today – we must never fail to see that there is a world for us to reach. I think that must become high on our list of priorities.

Liam Goligher (L.G): I want to endorse everything that has been said so far. *laughter*. You will hear this a lot. To clarify I think there is a fault line in British evangelicalism over the issue of the authority of Scripture. I would love to say the inerrancy of Scripture – I think there are some euphemisms like “the infallibility of Scripture” which may mean something different today to what we would understand historically of “inerrant Scripture”. The Roman Catholic church are quite clear – I read in an evangelical magazine in the last couple of months that the word “inerrant” is an American word and therefore we shouldn’t use it! The Roman Catholic Church in their 1985 catechism say that the Scriptures are without error and I would underline that. I also want to clarify salvation in terms of justification by grace alone by the imputed righteousness of Christ alone – because the idea of imputation has always been accepted and all the confessions since the Reformation would have been held by Arminians as well as Calvinists but this has been greatly undermined recently and the idea of imputed righteousness needs to be reclaimed for evangelicalism.

My only additional thing I would add is that sadly in broader evangelicalism in the last few years we have seen some of our major evangelical movements invite speakers here to this country who would not I think agree with fundamental creedal Christianity – which I would describe as catholic (with a small “c”). Basic Christianity – what C S Lewis would describe as the hallway we come into to define ourselves as Christians – that is our view of God as Trinity, the view of Christ as two natures and one Person and so on. I think there are real challenges in evangelicalism about what basic Christianity is.

John Coles (J.C): I agree. *laughter*. I wrote down three things and two of them have been said already actually – but within the context of the society in which we live. Namely regeneration and revelation. Society in which we live now believes that human beings have another aspect to their personality rather than just the mind. We need to embrace the post-modern age as a reawakening of human beings as spirit beings. The question is – what then happens, how do you benefit from what God has done for us in Christ? It is only by being born again of the Spirit and in the church – the church is losing the concept of regeneration and we need to be aware of how necessary that is in our society today given the awareness of human beings as spirit beings. Revelation – we have talked about that a bit but I think I would like to say that the question still remains for us and this is obviously the elephant in the room: Has God spoken or does God speak? I would like to say that He HAS spoken and He DOES still speak. I agree on the authority, sufficiency and inerrancy of Scripture but I have a love relationship with a God who has always spoken with human beings. So unless I am able to use that language about my relationship with Him I believe my Christianity is sub-biblical rather than fully biblical Christianity.

I want us to maintain the language of God still speaks today although the relative authority and the issues about how He speaks today is different from the written Word of God – it is not a new doctrine or a new morality – it is in personal guidance, direction, and I am alive today partly because that happened. On the morning of December 30th as we were getting up – my wife said to me, “I had a strange dream last night” and the impact and interpretation of it was that you are going to have to pray like you have never prayed in your life before. That afternoon I had a heart attack at 3pm which resulted in a cardiac arrest. In the grace of God the medics got there – but she knew that this was the moment that God had prepared her for in the dream. She and two of our children immediately engaged in prayer in a way that she had never seen previously. So that is a different category of God speaking but of equal significance for my life and future from the others.

The third thing I wrote was respect. 1. Regeneration. 2. Revelation. And 3. Respect. I look back to my days in Christian Union at university as I know many evangelicals do when there was a really vibrant unity that was able to embrace difference. We had robust conversations with Baptists – I was an Anglican paedobaptist and they believed in believer’s baptism. But we never questioned each other’s sincerity to Christ, the Bible or to mission. I was never described by my Baptists as not being “biblical”. I fear that within some of the tribes now there is an accusatory word that is used from one tribe to another – “You are not being really biblical, you are not being Scriptural”. There is an assumption that if you are being biblical then you will agree on every point of interpretation in the same way that I have interpreted that Scripture. I think we should respect each other enough to say; “I think you are being biblical – I know your heart but I just interpret those texts differently” – but actually you are equally evangelical as I am.

V.R: Anyone want to have a second bite in the light of what’s been said?

L.G: To what degree are we coming back to this later – that’s the thing?

V.R: Well – I guess for example John has mentioned “Has God spoken/does God speak” – I am quite sure we would all agree that God speaks. There would be debate I would imagine on how we would expect him to speak but I guess that may come as another issue to return to. Well let’s move on to another question. Our theme is “Spiritual Ministry” – each of you could speak for a long time on what you think that looks like in practice. But if I could limit you to a couple of minutes what would you want to major on when you think about Spirit-filled ministry? Let’s mix up the order – let’s start with Terry if we may.

Terry Virgo: I always think of the Book of Acts when they said; “Choose men who are full of the Holy Spirit to do this ministry” – it must have been very challenging because it looks like the whole church was very full of the Holy Spirit! Yet they selected men and found that Stephen was full of wisdom and full of power. I would feel that one of the marks of the early church as regards being full of the Holy Spirit was that there was a power to carry on witnessing in spite of hostility, opposition – it was perhaps their lack of courage at the Cross that so sadly seemed to disqualify Peter. For instance that made him deny that he even knew Jesus. Subsequently in the empowering of the Spirit there was a boldness. Certainly the word “boldness” is one that seemed identify believers in the early church – “Who are these unlearned fishermen – these non-trained rabbis – where did they get this boldness?”. I think boldness is something that characterised the early church when it was filled with the Holy Spirit. I think joy is another word you find characterising the Spirit-filled life. Even in the context of great opposition – Paul said to the Thessalonians; “Even in the midst of great suffering you received joy in the Holy Spirit”. It is not simply the kind of happy-clappy thing that can be dismissed as frivolous but a joy that can be found in the midst of pain. Maybe the kind of joy that Paul and Silas demonstrated in the inner prison late at night.

I would say the immediate Presence of the Spirit is huge – for me intimacy with the Presence of the Spirit – the coming of the Spirit was the recovery from exile - we are back into the Presence of the Lord.

So when on the Day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit fell upon them – they knew God was with them in an intimate way that surpassed anything they had known from when Jesus Himself was with them. He of course said; “I won’t leave you orphans – I will come to you”. So for Israel to be back into the Presence of the Lord in an unprecedented way – for God to be among them – accessibility – “By one Spirit we have access to the Father”. A sense of God’s nearness – His intimate Presence – both for individual in his own devotions, the corporate meeting and the sense that God is with us, we are in His Presence, we have access to Him. These to me I think would be biblically rooted truths that govern the high prize I would put on enjoying the Presence of the Holy Spirit.

V.R: Thank you – Liam?

L.G: Boldness, joy and a felt sense of the Presence of God – what the Puritans refer to I think as a “feeling-sense” of the Presence of God. I wonder if we do expect in our churches (especially at the conservative end of the spectrum) to come expecting that God is present and when His Word is spoken that God is speaking to us? I believe that the second Helvetic confession is absolutely right when it says the preaching of the Word of God is the Word of God and an expectation of immediacy when the Word is proclaimed especially in the Assembly of God’s people that there will be a living lively sense that God is there. So the boldness and evangelism and joy in our experience and relationship with God and a felt sense of God’s Presence – especially when we are together I think are vital. The effects and evidences that the Holy Spirit is present in power among us must be surely a converting ministry. We long to see a converting ministry. As you look over the evangelical scene isn’t it amazing that the Holy Spirit is quite indiscriminate about this. He gives a converting ministry to a charismatic person and to a very conservative ministry over here and He is quite indiscriminate about pouring that out on the church! But it seems the me the one thing we have lacked among us – how many can say that the Holy Spirit is present to do what we all believe whatever end of the spectrum we are on? I am convinced that where the Lord is – there will be a converting of hearts. And then I think there will be a sanctifying work in our hearts.

V.R: Thank you very much. John?

J.C: I have written down “Pleasure in God”, “personal transformation” and “power in witness”. Which seems to me to match up exactly with what you are saying. I think if you look at the difference in emphasis between charismatic churches and conservative churches – and none of us would be leading the way we are if we didn’t believe that what we were doing was Spirit-filled ministry so the consequence of our understanding of Spirit-filled ministry plays out in church life that we are leading. So probably instead of using general descriptions about what categories – we ought to look at what consequences. So what is the consequence of a charismatic, Spirit-filled view? My immediate observation would be that there is more evident singing. You go to a charismatic church and there is more singing for hours – sometimes it seems the same song! We drove the other day (probably not a good idea as it was about 18:30) through Piccadilly Circus as the whole place is buzzing with everyone going to the theatre. We drove round one corner and we heard a crowd singing. It was the Argentineans getting ready for a match last night. What do people do when they are full of joy? They sing – it is a natural human expression and emotion. It is interesting looking through some of the songs you guys are singing and seeing some of them come from the charismatic stable. We say that singing is the natural overflow of the Presence of the Spirit. We understand that pleasure in God is first not our pleasure in God but His pleasure in us. The Spirit on Jesus says; “You are My Son – I delight in You”.

Instead of the wrath of God falling on me – the pleasure of God embraces me. I am His beloved one! So my response is – oh Lord! Thank You!

And I want to express my gratitude to Him in song! I want to do that as well with my brothers and sisters because on my own I am not a particularly good singer and they help me sing and express that joy in a way above and beyond my own. So personal transformation (and that all comes from the Holy Spirit) comes in part through singing but also in part through the reading and the conformity of the Word of God thus also in part through the preaching and conformity to the Word of God. But there is another aspect – personal transformation comes through my own personal contemplation out in the quiet and beauty of the country and I can behold the beauty and glory of God. That is 2 Corinthians 3:18. As we contemplate the Lord’s glory we are transformed from one glory to another. Creation reveals His glory on the one hand and in worship we encounter His glory and Presence as well as in the Word He comes to us in His full glory. So what I am saying is that we expect to see light completely transformed. If that is not happening then we are not ministering in the fullness of the Holy Spirit. I think that is common to us all so the drug addict can be delivered and set free. I am involved at the moment in a new church plant and it is a pleasure to see drug addicts coming in off the estate to getting converted in the last 3 months, of drugs, lives being changed. People are coming saying; “Who is this Jesus?”. So the Spirit changes us!

V.R: Thank you John. Hugh?

H.P: I am getting boring now saying that I agree with what is being said. But I would expect a Spirit-filled ministry to be full of Jesus. He is to be the One to whom the Spirit points and I am struck again and again how when people are filled with the Spirit in Acts how the next thing they are doing is speaking. And what they are speaking of is Jesus. The boldness comes through there – He is the content of the message and the ministry and I would expect people to be speaking of the Christ and living out the Christ – which is a phrase I know I have domesticated. There are loads of ways we have domesticated that, first of all we have horribly individualised it. Spirit is creating community. Secondly the radicalness of it all and John has touched on some of it – another one that has come across to me is the sheer generosity of those early New Testament communities which certainly humbles me and I know humbles many of our churches and would be a wonderful display if that kind of generosity was demonstrated in our communities.

V.R:
Thank you very much.

Part 2 to follow!

Saturday, June 26, 2010

Terry Virgo - We MUST Get a Better and Bigger Vision!!

Read this on Terry Virgo's blog feed;

"Today God would say, ‘It is too small a thing for you to give yourself only to the restoration of the church in your small corner of the world. I call you to be a light to the nations, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth. Don’t be so preoccupied with the 10% when the 90% outside need to hear my word'".

I love the balance that Terry brings - he by no means is saying the church is perfect and restoration has been "done".

"Doubtless many aspects of New Testament church life still need to be recovered, but don’t grow stagnant and inward-looking, forgetting God’s great plan to reach all the families of the earth. It’s too small a thing to concentrate exclusively on restoring your little patch when God wants to lift your head, show you the harvest field, and send you to dying sinners with his glorious message of salvation".

And the ultimate truth that must never be forgotten or at our peril:

"Jesus isn’t just head over the church, be it local or universal. He said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me’ (Matt. 28:18). He’s head over all things (Eph. 1:10). He’s ruling as king over every nation at this very minute".

What about us? Are we and our churches so proud of the sole missionary you have sent to Africa? Are we so proud that you give generously to a seminary that trains pastors in wealthy suburbia? If we are neglecting the homeless Big Issue seller you pass on your way to work or neglecting the shivering prostitute smoking on the street corner or neglecting the gay Mardi Gras marchers you tut at privately - then you are not believing that Jesus Christ is head over ALL and are certainly not fulfilling the commission we have been given.

Tuesday, June 01, 2010

The Best Wine is STILL to Come!!

I'm having a pretty rough time at the moment still believing in the church. I had a few rough emails today that I won't go into right now. But once again I found myself wondering why it seems to me that the world accept and welcome and appreciate and value - but the church seems to disprove, doubt and discourage whereever possible. So how do we react to a feeling like that? I suppose I could wallow in my frustration and disappointment but how would that value the waiting nations who need to hear the gospel?

My take tonight is to remind myself of the glorious church - to re-state the vision! It's something I've done now and again on this blog. And I am so, so grateful to God for heroes of the faith who state it far better than I and who see it far clearer than I. Tonight - C H Spurgeon is my companion, my encouragement, my guide.

1. Preaching a sermon called; "The Feast of the Lord" at New Park Street on November 28th 1858, Spurgeon said;

"There is better wine to come. We are in our privileges superior to patriarchs, and kings, and prophets. God has given us a brighter and a clearer day than they had; theirs was but the twilight of the morning, compared with the noon-day which we enjoy. But think not that we are come to the best wine yet. There are more noble banquets for God's church; and who knoweth how long, ere the best of the precious wine shall be broached? Know ye not that the King of Heaven is coming again upon this earth?".

"Again, he will not give us the best wine first, because that is not his good pleasure ... Again; your Father doth not give you the good wine now, because he is giving you an appetite for it ... Again, the Lord hath this also in view. He is making you fit for the best wine, that he may be glorified by the trial of your faith".


I love Spurgeon's closing remark;

"I have never seen heaven anywhere but close to Calvary. When I have seen my Saviour crucified, then I have seen him glorified; when I have read my name written in his blood, then I have seen afterwards my mansion which he has prepared for me. When I have seen my sins washed away, then I have seen the white robe that I am to wear for ever. Live near to the Saviour, man, and you shall not be very far off heaven. Recollect, after all, it is not far to heaven. It is only one gentle sigh, and we are there. We talk of it as a land very far off, but close it is, and who knows but that the spirits of the just are here to-night? Heaven is close to us; we cannot tell where it is, but this we know, that it is not a far off land. It is so near, that, swifter than thought, we shall be there, emancipated from our care and woe, and blessed for ever".

2. An aspect of the glorious church is vitally and essentially a MILITANT church - preaching a sermon called; "The Vanguard and Rereward of the Church" on December 28th 1858, Spurgeon said;

"Yet nevertheless, the church on earth has, and until the second advent must be, the church militant, the church armed, the church warring, the church conquering".

The reason for our triumphant confidence? Spurgeon says;

"Christ has gone before us, he has done something in that going before, for he has conquered every foe that lies in his way. Cheer up now thou faint-hearted warrior. Not only has Christ travelled the road, but he has slain thine enemies. Dost thou dread sin? he has nailed it to his cross. Dost thou dread death? he has been the death of Death. Art thou afraid of hell? he has barred it against the advent of any of his children; they shall never see the gulf of perdition. Whatever foes may be before the Christian, they are all overcome".

How can we NOT be confident?! Christ has gone before us! The sin that some religious Pharisees may seek to accuse us of has already been gloriously nailed to the Cross!

3. Spurgeon continues the militant glorious theme in his sermon; "Storming the Battlements" preached on September 16th 1855;

But he brings a note of warning first;

"God's church is very fond of building walls which her God has not sanctioned. She is not content to trust in the arm of God, but she will add thereto some extraneous help which God utterly abhors. "Beautiful for situation—the joy of the whole earth—is Mount Zion, upon the sides of the north, the city of the great king. As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, even so is God round about his people, from henceforth, for evermore." But his people are not content with God's being round about them, they seek some other protection".

That leaves me feeling encouraged and driven. This is something worth fighting for. The demonic counterfeit - that which pretends to be "grace" but is in fact legalism designed to control and manipulate is worth resisting and is worth fighting. Because the reality is glorious! The reality is wonderful! The reality will sweep the nations and will see thousands come to faith and trust in the Wonderful Saviour who gave His life in love to see many sons come to glory!

Tuesday, May 04, 2010

Philippa Stroud ... Prejudiced or Caring?

I've been interested in Philippa Stroud's electioneering campaign since it commenced - due to the fact she is the wife of David - the UK apostolic leader of Newfrontiers who also leads Christchurch London. A church and a man I deeply respect - although I can't say I've ever seen or heard Philippa herself.

However Philippa's campaign hit a degree of controversy when the Observer reported an account of when the Stroud's set up the "Kings Arms Project" in Bedford when they led a church there prior to their days in Birmingham (this is some 15-20 years ago I believe). The Observer interviewed a girl dealing with transsexual feelings who worked with Philippa and her staff - who allegedly told her;

"She wanted me to know all my thinking was wrong, I was wrong and the so-called demons inside me were wrong. The session ended with her and others praying over me, calling out the demons. She really believed things like homosexuality, transsexualism and addiction could be fixed just by prayer, all in the name of Jesus."

The national press has intriguingly not picked up on this much (considering their love of bashing Christians) - however the Twitter community has. The Metro newspaper (a free daily paper) reported;

"Twitter users have begun a campaign on the popular micro-blogging site to raise awareness of The Observer's allegation that Stroud founded a church that would 'cure' homosexuals by 'exorcising' demons through prayer".

Other parties - such as the Liberal Democrats - have of course gleefully seized on this apparant gaffe by the Conservative candidate. The writer of this blog reported that Philippa Stroud has apparantly gone to ground. Mrs Stroud released a statement reporting that she does not believe "homosexuality is an illness" - however the Liberal Democrat blogger noted;

"Philippa Stroud’s http://twitter.com/philippastroud was deleted earlier today. By deleting it rather than making it private (or continuing to use it and publicly arguing her corner), the opportunity was presented for someone else to create a new account with that name and start sending out negative messages. So can you guess what happened? Also gone is Philippa Stroud’s Facebook supporters group".

Also interesting to note from my perspective is that Christian bloggers haven't (as yet) commented on this - this includes Adrian Warnock who has just finished a 3-part series on why he is voting Conservative and is friends with Mrs Stroud (and writes quite persuasively may I add). So I was thinking and reading some of the furious comments on some of the blogs and thinking that I had a few thoughts.

What qualifies me to say anything?

Well one the one hand - the anti-Stroud bloggers do not know Philippa Stroud and certainly do not know Newfrontiers or Christchurch London. I've spent many happy years in Newfrontiers churches and going to Newfrontiers conferences and can write a bit more on the issues as I understand it (although again - let me say I do not know Philippa Stroud and am not speaking on her behalf). However from the other point of view - I HAVE experienced a wide range of reactions in the church to admitting that I do have homosexual/bisexual/trisexual/whatever-sexual personal feelings. These have ranged from shock and horror - and most notably of course being "disfellowshipped" from the SGM church in Bristol - to actually going through Christian counselling and indeed an exorcism process myself. I would say I am a semi-cynical Christian (with regards to church) but still believing and hoping.

So in light of that - I have got a few reflections that occur to me.

What's the big deal?

1. Homosexual people don't like being told they need to be "cured".

I think that's the issue. Now we should add are homosexuals any different to any non-Christians when confronted with the gospel? In my experience of evangelising and spreading the gospel - initially most non-Christians backs are up when they realise that they fall short of the glory of God. The wonder of the gospel of course comes when they realise that all they have to do has already been "done" by Jesus Christ. So am I saying that we as Christians should stop telling homosexuals they need to be "cured"? Yes. "Cure" is a bad word. Homosexuals - like heterosexuals, bisexuals, transexuals and all other sexuals - need Jesus Christ. End of!

2. Talk of "demons" tends to freak most Christians - never mind non-Christians.

Demons were quite big in the 1970's and 80's in my Christian background - thanks to teachers such as Don Basham and Derek Prince. I don't think demons are quite as trendy now - maybe it was a backlash against the possible excesses of Prince and Basham's teaching. There was a tendency (I think) to see a demon in "everything". Now I fear that Christianity has swung the other way and dislikes any talk of demons - falling into the error that C S Lewis correctly identified in his "Screwtape Letters" - ignoring the demonic realm.

So the inevitable question must be - do I believe that homosexual people have a "specific" demon?

My personal experience (as I mentioned above) is that I have been through an exorcism process. It was undertaken by a very sincere couple of Christians who fervently believed that if they could cast out the demon of "homosexuality" (and demon of lust - they were sure he was in there too) then I would be "cured" and truly "straight". I am prepared to be open minded - maybe it was my lack of faith. But although I had some sort of spiritual experience - I was left with the same feelings and struggles. So I'm not sure (although I wouldn't swear) that there is a specific demon of homosexuality.

What I DO believe is that I have met and have friends who really struggle with suicidal feelings, feelings of depression, self-harm and so on. Some are gay guys, some are gay women, some are straight women. I have no doubt that straight men struggle with depression too - they just don't seem to admit it. But my point is that when I see Christian people tempted to suicide or self harm (such as I have and do struggle with) - I think we are entitled to suspect demonic involvement.

So what of Philippa Stroud?

Knowing what I do of Philippa Stroud, Christchurch London and Newfrontiers in general - I can state categorically that they are NOT, NOT, NOT a militant group of people who impose exorcism on any homosexual people who cross their doors. I don't know actually of a group of churches where gay people do feel more welcome than Newfrontiers - a place where the grace of God is taught strongly and passionately.

Now - that being said if you do join Newfrontiers and share that you are gay then you will realise that it is expected you distinguish between gay feelings and gay sexual activity. Sex is seen as being limited to only between one husband and one wife. That's what they believe and are more than entitled to their feelings.

However I must reiterate that I spent the last couple of days reading around Philippa Stroud and the ministries of Christchurch London and I have yet to encounter a more caring bunch of people. As I say - I have encountered other churches and their methodology of dealing with someone who confesses they are struggling with same sex attraction is less than ideal - bordering on panic and harshness.

I haven't heard of anyone being "disfellowshipped" from Newfrontiers for simply confessing they struggled with same sex attraction.

My conclusion?

I am hoping that Conservative Central Office have prepared Philippa Stroud that this media/Twitter frenzy is inevitable for any candidate who holds any views of any kind. I do not believe she is prejudiced or "anti-gay" in any stretch of the imagination. Rather I think the "King's Arms Project" is an inspired kind and caring project to reach people that the Church traditionally ignores.

If I voted Conservative (which I don't) and lived in Mrs Stroud's constituency (which I don't) then I would have no hesitation in voting for her. I would feel far more safe knowing someone like Mrs Stroud is representing me in Parliament - than other candidates - such as Rev Ian Paisley. A man who I am more than sure about his prejudices.

I hope and pray that Philippa Stroud gets into Parliament - to have a Spirit-filled and compassionate MP with integrity in the House of Commons would be outstanding.