Sunday, March 01, 2009

Rob Rufus on the Church

"The Church should be the safest place on earth".

Rob Rufus - "Attitudes that Attract the Empowering Grace of God - Part 5" - City Church International, Hong Kong - Sunday 31st August 2008.


Well ... is it? Or is it more appropriate to use Rob's warning that I have heard him use. That if you are swimming with the sharks, don't tell them you are bleeding.


7 comments:

James said...

Sadly ... I think Rob's shark analogy is more appropriate at times. But don't give up hope! Thank God that we can sing with hope and assurance; "It is the church, the hope of all the world" ... and then from Hebrews ... He who has begun a good work in you will complete it!

Nick Cameron said...

I have come to the conclusion that this very much depends on the church and also your attitude to that church!
That may sound crazy but bear with me! Having been in one kind of church where you are waiting for the sharks to bite you can move to a grace church (that really is a grace church) but still not feel 'safe' because of past experience......
I am not sure what the answer is to this - just throwing another thought into the melting pot Dan!

lydia joy said...

The church should be the safest place on earth, unfortunately from our earthly perspective and experience it's not. When Rob said that he was referring to anyone who is still mixing the message, and is sin conscious and desirous to be controlling. But Nick you are right, there ARE some pure grace churches out there, or even churches moving toward that, where folks understand their identity in Christ and live out of the identity. I would say that that kind of church is a safe church. I think those who have moved out of abusive churches need time to get set free from all their past issues and hurts, (he heals the brokenhearted, no?) and in time they will trust (hopefully), because those who operate out of identity are indeed safe to be around, because they are secure in who they are, they can embrace others too, and love with the love of Christ who lives in them by His very Spirit!! I am learning to trust the Christ in others, when we can do that, it's a beautiful thing!!!

Chris Welch - 07000INTUNE said...

I was physically carried out of my last church. It was my fault that I was so dogged in my intercession for that church. had I towed the line more. I could have been spared the last bit. After 10 years in Havant church I am starting to feel safer.Thet've not Kicked me out yet.

Nick Cameron said...

Thanks Lydia - you are an encouragement.
Chris - you too have encouraged me perhaps unintentionally but you have! After 10 years you are only starting now to feel safer - I think the thing that really strikes me is it takes a long time!

Peter Day, my pastor, tells me that there is also the whole thing of unlearning how you feel, react, even how you view grace, yourself etc etc. I guess those of us on the journey of learning about grace are discovering that very often the enemy uses the past to confuse us in the grace journey - after all it is easier to believe some of the past stuff when you look at personal experience/ at your life!
Onwards in the grace journey - keep the fuel coming Dan!

Ursula Kuba said...

Nick, I get where you are coming from! In Jubilee, I was in the best church ever, and the pastors were beautiful friends of mine....after 6 months, I was good friends of theirs, had staying in their house, and looked after thier kids, had been prayed for by them, and only ever experienced their grace...and still I waited for the day when they would turn and rip me to shreds. When they would 'discipline me in love'...and the day that God showed me that....I cried. The day that Fini had a complaint (unfounded) about me from another pastor whose sheep I had prayed for, and he backed me up without even asking me what happened...was the day it all broke for me. It takes time...sometimes longer than for me...but I get the problem...and I live it even now, I am careful how far I let leaders into my life until I know their hearts. Fini and Isi, it was almost instantly, but although I fully bared myself, I was just awaiting for the attack! Not anymore though!

Ursula Kuba said...

Dan!!! We need to talk...

About a few things.................. ;-)

Facebook me!!!!! So exciting...its so exciting...and I know its going to get you all excited!!!!!!!!!