"This Movement (Charismatic) has Diminished Music" - John Macarthur

One of the aspects of the "Strange Fire" conference that slightly staggered me and infuriated me was the utter lack of logic and consistency reported by men who proudly call themselves "men of the Word" - and indeed near the end of Macarthur's final session seems to proudly liken himself to Timothy "guarding divine revelation".  What do I mean by that?  Macarthur made many blunt and straightforward statements that many of his "spin doctor" fans sought to water down.  To be fair to Macarthur (and I respect him for it, as much as I find his sheer arrogance dislikable) - he didn't seek to do so.

And he stated rather proudly he doesn't care about offending people.  So I feel little shame in joining the right and proper robust responses against him.

He stated charismatics are, in his eyes, unsaved - and he stuck by it.  But even he seemed to flounder a little when confronting issues such as the fact that equally credible and respected theologians such as John Piper or Wayne Grudem would not agree with his hyper-cessationist, anti-charismatic views.  Adrian Warnock reported from the Q and A session in the conference that he seemed to bluster;

"With John Piper, that is a complete anomaly. That is just so off everything else about him ... Even Wayne Grudem. I look at this as an anomaly [in his theology]. I don’t know and don’t need to know where this impulse comes from".

The thrust of Macarthur's argument too about worship seems highly inconsistent.  His spin-doctor fans on Twitter seem to claim "of course he is not throwing the entire baby out with the bathwater" - apparently Macarthur likes Stuart Townend's "The Power of the Cross".  Whether he does or doesn't, or maybe doesn't realise Townend comes from Newfrontiers flagship church "Church of Christ the King" in Brighton - he is clear on his views of charismatic worship offering to the church universal.  Challies reports;

"MacArthur disagrees with this opinion. He is convinced that the contemporary style of music in the charismatic movement is the entry point of false doctrine into our churches. A church rooted in historical doctrine and hymns will be reluctant to embrace this music. This movement has diminished music by taking it out of the area of the mind and reduces it to feelings of the flesh".

There are thousands of songs from charismatic songwriters I could quote but as "the Power of the Cross" was cited - let's focus on that;



I love this song because it particularly highlights and preaches the power of the complete gospel.  And if Macarthur maybe would claim that this song from Townend is an "anomoly" like he sees Piper and Grudem's more charismatic pneumatology - I would rather counter that I think (I don't know - I haven't heard a testimony of how he wrote it) but actually Stuart Townend's charismatic experience and encounters with God indeed aided and inspired him to see the glorious gospel in it's entirety!

A key example of this is - to me - the baptism of the Holy Spirit (and for clarity's sake - I remain Lloyd-Jonesian in my understanding of this).  Macarthur presumably would class this among other "demonic" doctrines.  But I loved the way that Terry Virgo at Stoneleigh Bible Week 2000 drew the vital paralell between the ascension of Jesus the risen Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.  For those with no time to hear the clip - here's what Terry said;

"Every person filled with the Holy Spirit is a proof and demonstration that Jesus Christ is not a corpse in some hidden cave in the Middle East.  Every Christian filled with the Holy Spirit is proof that He ascended on high ... only resurrected, ascended Messiah's can give the Holy Spirit.  Dead corpses aren't very good at it.  It is a demonstration He is alive!  It is His coronation gift!".



I would counter Macarthur's vitriol that the charismatic movement has spread in such entirety because it is "offering the world what it wants" - rather I think the charismatic movement is reminded the church what real life in the New Covenant is.  Of course I would not claim, as some charismatics do, that reformed evangelicals are "dry, dead and dusty" (although some are).  Neither would I claim that ALL charismatic churches are "alive, exciting and in right relationship with the risen Christ".

I actually believe that many charismatic movements and streams have become dry, flabby and complacent.  Back in the 1970s and 80s there was much talk of "building a house for God".  House churches thrived and there was a passion to relive New Covenant life.  There are many charismatic (so-called) churches I visit and one can almost predict what "gift" will be manifested.  And this complacency has no-doubt fuelled Macarthur and other anti-charismatic views.

Suddenly (thanks to people like Mark Driscoll - well-intended as he is) the focus has become "mission" - and the endless buzz word is "mission".  If your church is not "missional" then you should be ashamed of yourself - we are led to believe.  Many charismatic churches have seemed to have forgotten that true life in the Spirit and an enjoyment of the Presence of God naturally leads to a passion for the lost.

As John Piper said;

"Mission exists because worship doesn't".

Oh that many of us could remember the words of Terry Virgo at Stoneleigh Bible Week 1998 - we are a "dwelling place for God in the Spirit".  Oh for churches springing up (or being revived truly) across the UK.  Less of the silly counterfeit and more of reality!!

An Investment ... or Sheer Irresponsibility?!

Well I have a confession to make - must be related to my "indwelling sin" and that wretched "old man" that just won't quit and die ... ;-)

I was very excited when I first heard about the magnificent series of DVD's that Wayne Grudem has produced. It is a series of 16 DVD's with over 16 hours of teaching on them. Grudem essentially teaches on key aspects of the Christian life in his Systematic Theology such as;

1. What is God like?
2. What are angels and demons?
3. What is the resurrection?
4. What are justification and adoption?

And so on. I've struggled with the price (£80) in my mind but finally yesterday decided to take the plunge and go for it. Men like Wayne Grudem are rare and gifted teachers. Grudem has the unique gift of teaching on systematic theology but for some reason when he teaches on what many may feel are "boring" topics and many other teachers lecture on with little result other than imparting information - Grudem always seems to bring a sense of the manifest Presence of God.

This most certainly happened when I've heard him speak twice at the "Together on a Mission" conference in 2003 and 2006. He spoke in 2003 on "Biblical Manhood and Womanhood" (a subject I tire of often) but there was an amazing sense of God's Presence there when Terry Virgo got us to sing "There is a Day!" afterwards. The same thing happened again when Grudem spoke on the Person of Christ at Brighton in 2006. Grudem certainly speaks with anointing.

I figured that the only other way to be able to get to hear Wayne Grudem speak in this length and depth would be to either follow him across the globe (costing thousands in airfares) or enroll at Phoenix Seminary in Arizona (also costing thousands). £80 seems rather a bargain in comparison! Effectively I get to go on a Systematic Theology course in my own apartment!

Others have already reached the same conclusion clearly - Tim Chester among others has brought the series and reviews it here. I will hopefully be reviewing aspects of interest as I listen to the sessions when I can!

Word ... Spirit ... Word .... Spirit - IS there a balance?!

I'm an unashamed charismatic. I used to say I'm a behind the scenes reformed Christian (i.e. some reformed doctrine bothers me). So I like the term charismatic calvinist at the moment (but that may change soon!). Whatever the labels - the fact is that I love and appreciate the Word of God and I honour and desperately need and love the Spirit of God. But I do struggle to find that "tension" that Ern Baxter used to speak about.

I probably have far more books in my library than I care to count. And frequently want more! I am currently wrestling with my conscience and my wallet being HUGELY tempted by Wayne Grudem's awesome DVD collection called "Christian Beliefs". It is a mighty 16 DVD collection of hours of Wayne Grudem speaking on vital Christian doctrines. I'm sure I will give in at some point soon!

But I must admit the "Word" part of me was positively dribbling at these three videos of Wayne Grudem speaking about Phoenix Seminary where he lectures. If I had unlimited resources I would love nothing more than to come over to the United States and take full advantage of that incredible rich resource of teachers! I think the key is that we don't need to become a "Grudem-ite" or a "Piper-ite" or a "Macarthur-ite" or a "whatever-ite". I remember someone describing it as enjoying a selection of cakes at a buffet. You take the slice you like the look of and move on. Why not the same with teachers of the Word of God?!

Here are the videos;

ESV Study Bible Panel Discussion Videos

I've never really made a secret of the fact that I'm not a huge English Standard Bible fan - despite the vast popularity it carries among many of my hero Bible teachers such as Wayne Grudem or John Piper and so on. I do indeed have a version and use it out of interest to compare various Scriptures that intrigue me - but I still loyally prefer the New American Standard Version (Ern Baxter's version of choice).

However I was interested to find two Panel Discussion videos that were hosted by Justin Taylor interviewing J I Packer and Wayne Grudem discussing and talking about the ESV Study Bible. Here's Part 1;



And here's Part 2;



By the way I love hearing J I Packer in any format - preaching or discussion just as I love hearing Dr John Stott and tapes of Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones. I love the soft, lilting Queen's English that they bring! Anyhow - as I say the discussion is more for interest and posted by way of information rather than signalling a version change for myself. I don't know yet whether I will get hold of an ESV Study Bible. I do have a New American Standard Version Study Bible that is a wonderful resource with room in the margins for notes and pencillings. But I certainly would never say never.

Gone to Brighton!!

We leave tomorrow!! Back in a week!!

I'm not quite sure what state blogging will be although I promise full and descriptive reports even if I don't quite manage live-blogging. Pete is bringing his laptop so hopefully we will get to publish something each day - that really depends on in what measure God comes in power and whether I am too laid out to type anything. I'm going primarily to receive and I'm going desperate! Last year's TOAM 06 can be found here too. There are going to be transcripts of the prophecies that God may give here. There is going to be descriptions of the worship here and there are going to be quotes logged here!

There is plenty to look at this week. Newfrontiers have updated their website and it has become even more awesome. There are a number of outstanding theological papers finally produced here along with the audio-messages from last years TOAM 06. The latest Newfrontiers magazine is out and is of expected high standard. There is an interview with Wayne Grudem which is very interesting. He speaks of his baptism in the Spirit while at Yale as well as an extremely encouraging sense that God is going to visit the UK;

"I mentioned this to Terry Virgo with tears in my eyes as I felt something of the Holy Spirit's Presence in saying this. I don't think when God brings revival that He is going to pass over the United Kingdom with all that wonderful history of worldwide spread of the gospel ... I do not think God is going to forget all of that".

Finally Jesse has written again and it is unmissable!

So I pray God's deepest blessings on all of you - may He visit each and everyone of you in manifest power - speak soon!

A Spot of Blogspotting, Updates and News ...

What better way to wile away the morning hours of a night shift when all is quiet than to dive into the rich, deep, awesome Christian blogs that are out there? I must confess I have been robbing myself by not searching more fervently for the gold that is there! So here goes:

Ern Baxter on MP3!

For those friends who have followed my story and this site for a while, you will appreciate what a big deal this is. I have successfully mastered the procedure for getting my dusty Ern Baxter audiotapes onto MP3! So over the weekend I have been recording non-stop and can now offer the following ministry messages on MP3 to anyone who would like them.

- "Ditch Diggers Revival".

- "What on Earth is God Saying About Discipling the Nations?".

- "The King, the Kingdom and the Holy Spirit" Conference Messages with Bishop Earl Paulk. (10 Sessions with a Dialogue Q and A).

Enjoy!

Dr John Piper at Phoenix Seminary with Professor Wayne Grudem.

For any like-minded fans of these two scholarly, passionate, gifted academics like me, the idea of them being together in any forum is enough to make ones mouth water. Well it is now available on DVD and mine is on order! Here's the information:

"The Happy Necessity of God-Centeredness in the Pastor's Feeling, Thinking, and Preaching

Man-centeredness pervades our world. Even in the church, a gospel is often preached that makes man the focus and puts God at the edge. People become God and he becomes their lackey. Into this context, the Bible levels a radical challenge to feel, think, and preach with absolute God-centeredness.

In these three messages from the 2006 Phoenix Seminary Pastors Conference, John Piper preaches to preachers, urging them to lead in a way that keeps God where he belongs – the center. Also featured is an hour of Q & A with John Piper and Wayne Grudem".

I think this DVD is going to be a gold-mine of information, motivation and a must-have in any personal theological library. We in the UK especially seem starved of men such as Piper and Grudem in the present spiritual climate so this DVD will be like manna from heaven.

John Piper on Prayer.

I sent Terry Virgo a copy of Ern Baxter's awesome sermon, "Ditch Diggers Revival" and made reference to how stirred I was by his book, "The Tide is Turning". Terry has the unique gift of being able to respond warmly and graciously to someone like me while probably being one of the busiest church fathers around in the world (a gift not many church leaders seem to have). Terry is one of the few heroes of mine who seems to be able to make a passing comment that can just reach out and grab one. Writing about the upcoming "Together on a Mission 2007" he said,

"Let's pray fervently for God to visit us in power".

We cannot simply passively wait! So John Piper's "Desiring God" blog has provided a gem of a tool that will be helpful for any who are ready to join in with Terry's fatherly urge. One of the Desiring God team wrote about a recent seminar that Piper held at Bethlehem Baptist Church on prayer and they have provided a 35 page document of notes, examples and comments that Piper used in his address.

It's here.

Amazing Grace in the Life of William Wilberforce

Another gem from John Piper! For many years Piper has demonstrated his gift of being a biographer at his Bethlehem Conference for Pastors. I love collecting the "Swans are not Silent" sets that are such an inspiration. So it is clear that Wilberforce had slightly bigger impact on Piper that some of the other men he has studied because he has written a short book on Wilberforce's amazing life - one of battle through adversity and glorious triumph by the grace of God. Want to change the world for the glory of God?

It is available online here to read.

The Days Are Coming!

Prophet Jon Cressey has expanded his wealth of resources into a new blog; "The Days are Coming" - prophetic encouragement for weary hearts. And encouragement it is! Take a load of this;

"There is so much promise in the scripture as yet fully unrealised. Promises of a global outpouring of the Spirit on all flesh, promises of God’s glory to cover all the earth as the waters cover the sea, and the certain, inextinguishable hope of the return of Jesus Christ for the Saints. Promises of Jesus coming to fetch a glorious Church. A Church that will be without spot and wrinkle, a glorious community of the saints, forgiven, restored, accepted and redeemed by the Blood of Christ. And all this, not by their great actions, deeds and works, but by his breathtaking, magnificent and glorious grace. Christ has done it all!"

Feeling tired and worn out like me? It's the kind of stirring encouragement that you need to read and hear!

And Finally a Report on the Newfrontiers Student Worker Day!

My friend Luke is back writing with a vengance and it is great! His reports are here:

Session One - Tom Shaw.

Session Two - Andrew Wilson.

Session Three - Q and A.

The one theme that caught my attention and excited me hugely was this; "I will also say that the final question led to Tom Shaw asserting again that it is too small a thing for us to be simply concerned with the UK. And that more and more Mobilise will be focusing on the nations."

The final thought from Luke which I also agree wholeheartedly with:

"An unread library is a great tragedy".

Arguing While Rome Burns?

I brought and read two new books by Dr Wayne Grudem yesterday on ... yes, you guessed it - "Evangelical Feminism". Doesn't that bring the sum total of books on this topic from this author to around five or six? I got "Evangelical Feminism - A New Path to Liberalism?" (part funded by SGM) and "Countering the Claims of Evangelical Feminism: Biblical Responses to the Key Questions". As I wrote before up until now I would class myself as a complimentarian and would pretty much agree with Dr Grudem on this issue. My background in each church I have been a member of has been that the gender of the teaching elders are men although I certainly wouldn't leave a church if it turned out that a woman would be preaching.

But I must confess that I finished the two books and found myself wondering what Grudem has achieved by writing and publishing the amount of books he has on this topic and whether I understand the topic any better for spending money and time on reading all his books (and they aren't cheap or short). Would we spend our time and money better by focusing on what Jul perceives to be the greatest threat to the church? That of "pharisaical arrogance and legalism"? What I am trying to establish in my mind is what exactly has been accomplished (other than more royalties for Dr Grudem) in the publishing of yet more books on evangelical feminism into what Puritan Thomas Brookes called an already saturated Christian market?

I think some useful things have been achieved (although not resolved by any means).

1. Wayne Grudem Brings the Subject of Homosexuality To the Table of Discussion.

Traditionally evangelicals have avoided this subject like the plague. "The sin which must not be named". I think Mark Heath might be right although perhaps a little over-generous in saying; "Personally I have never come across an evangelical church that does not claim to want to be welcoming or loving to the homosexual" but is indeed accurate in writing; "they will all make clear that they do not believe practising a homosexual lifestyle is compatible with a Christian confession". In my experience most church leaders tend to turn pale and sweaty at best, and will react with homophobic control at worst when confronted with an individual who confesses they are struggling with homosexuality. Surely here is the attractive nature of the Emerging Church who; "are determined not to be homophobic, which they view evangelicals as being".

But what does Wayne Grudem have to say on this issue in his two books?

Unfortunately not much. To be fair it is not his topic of discussion in the main but it most definately plays a part in his thinking for; "The approval of homosexuality is the final step along the path to liberalism." What does trouble me however is how Grudem links the incident of Judy Brown with egalitarianism. For an academic who's logic and brilliant mind is famous, this seems bizarre at best. Grudem wrote;

"What happened to Judy Brown? I expect that she probably had a deep love for God and a strong spiritual gift of Bible teaching. If she had continued to use this gift within the bounds of Scripture and decided she would teach the Bible only to women, she likely would have had a remarkable fruitful ministry with much blessing from God ... But she stepped outside the bounds of appropriate women's ministry as described in Scripture ... and then it appears that God simply withdrew His blessing and withdrew His hand of protection from her life. She tragically lost the ability to make wise judgements and disastrous consequences followed".

Then Grudem seems to realise that the obvious question poses itself - what then of the hundreds of male pastor spiritual casualities? Again his explanation begs examination;

"I agree that many male pastors have also fallen into serious sin ... but in their cases the reason cannot be that the Bible forbids men to become pastors! Surely nobody would argue that".

Erm ... maybe evangelical feminists would?

Grudem does nothing to use his considerable skills in influencing the many churches who admire him to become more adept at dealing with honestly struggling homosexual people within their ranks. He simply presents it as "the end of the road of liberalism". I fear that the attitude to homosexual people will continue to diversify with worsening negative attitudes in complimentarian evangelical churches and more liberal, welcoming attitudes in emerging egalitarian churches. Are there no churches who will truly "love the sinner but hate the sin"?

It is interesting that God asked Rob Rufus why He should pour out blessing upon his church when their attitude was so poor to "the unlovely". The Lord then told Rob and his church to go out and bring in the prostitutes, the drug addicts and the homosexuals and welcome them - then the blessing would come. They did - and It did. Maybe we should consider doing the same for fear we miss whatever "new thing" God may be doing.

2. Wayne Grudem Brings Respectful Debate to the Table of Discussion.

I did appreciate and learn from the fact that Grudem is clearly aware he is waging theological war and yet remains polite throughout. Al Mohler wrote;

"In considering the arguments put forth by evangelical feminists, Grudem is careful to avoid ad hominem attacks on egalitarian scholars and spokespersons. Instead, he considers each of their arguments with considerable scholarly care and attention, drawing the logical conclusions from the methodological assumptions the egalitarian scholars embrace".

While I do wonder what has been achieved by yet two more books on this subject, I do deeply appreciate the desire to "exhaust" theological issues. This was something that I adored in the great Puritan John Owen. John Piper wrote;

"We cannot properly estimate the blessing of soaking our minds in the Bible-saturated thinking of the likes of John Owen. What he was able to see in the Bible and preserve for us in writing is simply magnificent. It is so sad - a traversty I want to say - how many Christian leaders of our day do not strive to penetrate the wisdom of John Owen but instead read books and magazines that are superficial in their grasp of the Bible".

I have little doubt that Wayne Grudem will still be remembered centuries on as a similar Bible-saturated thinker. These men are just men but we surely do not wish to "dishonour God by not gladly receiving and appropriating the gifts He has given us".

3. Finally Wayne Grudem Brings the Question as to What Is and Is Not of Primary Importance to the Table of Discussion.

In "Countering the Claims of Evangelical Feminism: Biblical Responses to the Key Questions" Grudem makes reference to the issue of water baptism and admitted it is an important issue in Christian life. Yet in the Together for the Gospel statement it is ommitted presumably due to the presence of paedobaptists within their "discussion". Whether it is or whether it is not will never be decided here but it does seem that again and again debates rise and fall around whether it is "central to the gospel".

Grudem leaves us with no doubt whatsoever that he believes the issue of manhood and womanhood is vitally central. At the end of "Evangelical Feminism" he writes persuasively;

"Which will we choose? Will we follow faithfully in the path of life-long obedience to all the teachings of the Word of God, believing that is the only path to true blessing? Or will we turn aside to evangelical feminism and be led step by step down the path to liberalism and to an ever-increasing denial of the authority of the Word of God?".

Once again no middle ground is allowed. Grudem rules out various "moderate complimentarian" positions that I have heard of such as women preaching "under the authority of male pastors" (he asks "Does a pastor's authority trump Scripture?), women preaching at seminars and he rejects modern prophecies that are proclaiming a release of women preaching ministry.

Wayne Grudem - a Bridge-Builder?

I must admit to finishing these two books and not enjoying them particularly. They left me feeling unsettled and worried about the fact that I am not quite as radical a complementarian as Grudem would have us, and concerned about why that is so. Will Grudem's prolific writings on this matter change the minds of egalitarian feminists? I doubt it. Will his writings harden the views of his supporters? Most probably.

Suzanne McCarthy makes two statements that deserve thought; "My purpose is to show that Dr. Grudem makes public statements without any conscience about whether they are true or not. If authority is about being male rather than about telling the truth, I am simply not interested". I am not totally convinced about the first statement but Grudem did write a concerning passage about Aimee Semple McPherson where he seemed to follow the newspaper lines about her life. I have heard Dr Jack Hayford, the President of Foursquare, lecture on Mrs McPherson and he proved to my mind that the rumours against her were false. I would have thought that a scholar of Dr Grudem's stature would not take serious rumours like this without investigating them and certainly not state them in print simply because she was a woman preacher.

Secondly the statement about authority because of gender was an issue that I was affected by in "Discovering Biblical Equality: Complementarity Without Hierarchy". Does the Bible give us permission to bestow authority simply because of gender? Gordon Fee argues definately not but rather anointing of the Spirit. These issues have to be discussed partly because Wayne Grudem insists that they be discussed. I'd rather write about revival, the Holy Spirit or worship anyday. I guess we will wait and see what comes of the fall out of the publishing of these two books. I remain "open but cautious" and I never thought I'd say that.

Lines Are Being Drawn In The Sand ...

Before I begin writing what is on my mind, many thanks to the Tall Skinny Kiwi for this reflection on Christmas. No I'm not converting to Emerging. But what a great quote:

"We Protestants place a lot of importance on the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Sometimes we neglect the other aspects of the finished work of Christ in order to keep the cross central, and we minimize the incarnation. Taken to the extreme, our theology might suggest it is always Easter and never Christmas ... If the work of Christ was only the cross, He could have done his job in 3 days. Without the incarnation, we would not understand what Jesus meant when he said "As the Father has sent Me, so I send you".

Does that explain why Christmas is such an unbearably nauseating time in relation to church? David Holden asked the excellent question why as so-called charismatics, the Presence of the Holy Spirit seems to go on standby over Christmas. To great laughter he described the unusual experience of finishing singing "Once in Royal David's City" at his home church in Sidcup and then hearing a tongue break out! Oh for more of the manifesting of the Spirit this Christmas!

I'm a fan of Wayne Grudem.

Let me get that out of the way first. I hugely admire his intellect, his fierce devotion to truth and his openness to the Holy Spirit in an theologically academic world that remains suspicious of anything subjective. Let me state also for the record that if put on a lie detector I would agree with his position on biblical manhood and womanhood - simply put that the role of a teaching elder is for men. So I will be buying his latest tome; "Evangelical Feminism - a New Path to Liberalism?" and look forward to reading what he has to argue.

But the whole issue is not one that I am particularly passionate about and it certainly isn't a "hill that I would die upon" (as I heard C J Mahaney once declare at an SGM Leadership Conference). I've read the response to Piper and Grudem's magisterial book that Gordon Fee helped co-edit - "Discovering Biblical Equality: Complementarity without Hierarchy" - and was impressed by some of the arguments. By the way keep an eye open for Fee's new large book coming out called; "Pauline Christology - An Exegetical-Theological Study". Very exciting! I guess I would call myself a moderate complementarian.

However having read a recent interview that Wayne Grudem gave on the subject, I'm not sure that we will have the luxury of having feet on both sides of the fence. He seems to me to be arguing that to hold an egalitarian position will result in the denial of anything uniquely masculine then progressing to a call to address God as our Mother resulting in the gradual approval of homosexuality. In his own words; "The arguments of evangelical feminism are leading people to deny the authority of Scripture and to move to theological liberalism including the approval of homosexuality". He names and shames Dr Roy Clements as proof of his deductions.

What can we say and what can we do in such a concerning position as this? I guess we can most certainly buy Dr Grudem's books on this topic and reassure ourselves that we are doctrinally correct. Maybe we could pay out and go to conferences like Together for the Gospel 2008 where this doctrinal position is part of their statement of faith. We can argue about it - One bold lady called Suzanne from Vancouver has taken Grudem on and is debating with him and being persecuted for it by the complementarians. But is this achieving anything? Is it advancing the Kingdom of God? What does the world make of this - if they even care?

Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones identified two problems with the evangelical church. Orthodox we are - but the two errors can be "Defective" and "Dead". Much concern is given, it seems to me, to the "Defective" aspect of our orthodoxy. A concern for the truth! Adherence to various statements of faith! And this is true and right and good. Dr Lloyd-Jones wrote of this concern:

"It is the condition of people who believe the truth and know that they believe the truth. There is no question about that. You question them, you catechise them and you will find that they are correct and orthodox. There is no fault to be found with their creed or their belief".

It's interesting to me that in the various sweeps of church history there is a glaring problem that we don't like to talk about very much. God, for some reason known only to Him, doesn't seem to always respect the fact that we have got our creeds and beliefs spot on. Annoyingly He has often brought revivals upon those who quite frankly might be liberals, Arminians or just those who we don't agree with. Is this an excuse for liberalism in our orthodoxy? Of course not. But I am just wondering whether in our passionate pursuit of truth - we are forgetting that we need life too. Dr Lloyd-Jones said;

"And therefore I come finally to this point. There is nothing vital in the religion and worship of such people. They expect nothing and they get nothing and nothing happens to them. They go to God's house, not with the idea of meeting with God, not with the idea of waiting on Him, it never crosses their minds or enters into their hearts that something might happen in a service".

"But the idea never even enters their imaginations that God may suddenly visit His people and descend upon them, the whole thrill of being in the Presence of God and sensing His nearness and His power . The whole thing is formal, it is this smug contentment".

"We must examine ourselves. Do we go to God's house expecting something to happen? Or do we go to just listen to another sermon and to sing our hymns and to meet with each other? How often does this vital idea enter our minds that we are in the Presence of the living God, that the Holy Spirit is in the Church, that we may feel the touch of His power?".

"The question is, are we giving the Holy Spirit an opportunity? Are we so tied down by our programmes that He is excluded? Why this formality? Why this tying down of everything? What if the Spirit should suddenly come? I do commend this matter to you very seriously".

"But in the name of God, quench not the Spirit, despise not prophesyings, and let us come to God's house in freedom, ever expecting the power to descend upon us and to have an experience of God and of Christ that will melt us and move us and break us and make us forget ourselves".

So I think for now I will leave evangelical feminism to Wayne Grudem. God has gifted scholars who have the liberty to devote themselves dogmatically to their key concern and I'm grateful for them. For myself I would rather restrain myself from irritating and offending evangelical feminists by writing and instead seek to demonstrate the joy, power and life in truth by living as a truly Christ-obsessed man doing what Christ told me to do and loving as Christ told me to love. Maybe if we stopped talking and starting living then people might start taking notice.

After all I can't change people's minds - neither can Wayne Grudem for that matter. But what I can take notice of is my expectation of God and the Spirit when I come to church. And I can pray and plead for a "coming down" of the Spirit where I live. That will make people sit up and take notice! Life! Isn't it the Holy Spirit who can change people's minds?

So back to where I started: oh for a drenching of the Spirit! Let the tidal wave arrive soon! Dr Lloyd-Jones said once that revival was the only hope for the Christian church. I think it is still the only hope.