Heroes of Faith: Interviews with Terry Virgo

I was so excited to see these set of videos have been posted on Terry Virgo's website. He mentioned on his Twitter account that he was being interviewed for this series - and here they are! It was a bittersweet moment to be present at the last "Together on a Mission" in July. One of the highlights of that conference was the opportunity to hear Terry - one of my ultimate living heroes of the faith - speak regularly. I probably have not heard "now" words from God from any other preacher alive other than this great man.

So here are the videos;

Revelation TV interview part 1 from Terry Virgo on Vimeo.

Revelation TV interview part 2 from Terry Virgo on Vimeo.

Revelation TV interview part 3 from Terry Virgo on Vimeo.

Preach the Word!

I've just come back from a fantastic day spent in the historical city of Oxford. Scott and I both had the day off and decided to do something "different". Oxford is only an hour's drive away and somewhere I've visited once or twice (once in 2001 to hear John Piper speak at St Aldates and St Ebbes churches) but never to appreciate some of it's historical features.

One amazing place I was fascinated to visit was the famous Bodleian Library. It is the main research library in Oxford, one of the oldest libraries in Europe and second in size only to the British Library (some 11 million items!). I could have spent hours there. Why do libraries thrill me so? I think it is the historical marvel that words written down up to centuries ago can still be enjoyed, read and benefited from now.

Video tapes and audiotapes may erode and the spoken words of the sermon lost (one reason why I transcribe so much). But books manage to survive!

I've spent the last couple of days reading a novel I enjoy greatly - the series of books by Christopher Paolini about the character Eragon and his dragon Sapphira. At one point Eragon (the hero of the story) is severely hampered in his battle against evil because he doesn't have a sword. He tries out many inferior swords but ends up seeking the perfect sword made by elves which he calls "Fire". That always challenges me and reminds me of many Christians and Christian churches. Ephesians speaks of the "Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God". Spirit and Word are seen as an offensive weapon in our fight!

There is much to challenge our generation. I've just been absolutely thrilled to find hidden in the archives of the Martyn Lloyd-Jones Recording Trust - two sessions that Dr Lloyd-Jones held after he had finished speaking his famous "Preaching and Preachers" lectures in the USA. No one knew that after these lectures he held two Question and Answer sessions with the students -and the recordings were SAVED! (I will of course be transcribing them).

But Dr Lloyd-Jones is in glory. Terry Virgo and Stanley Jebb are in their sixties and seventies. Rob Rufus and Greg Haslam are in their fifties. Ern Baxter is in glory. Where are the young men and women of OUR generation ready to rise up and obey the Great Commission set by the risen Lord Jesus;

"Go into the world and preach the good news to all creation!".

Will our generation put down the words God speaks through preaching that can be set down in books for generations and centuries to come (if Jesus Christ doesn't return)? I have got a few things that I feel God is challenging me with that I may share in time - exciting days!

Deifying Human Beings?

I have been reading J Lee Grady's book; "The Holy Spirit is NOT for Sale" and must be honest - some of it makes for painful reading. Grady is criticising some of the charismatic movement's excesses in the book - however I must say this. It is easier to accept criticism from someone who is "in the family" (i.e. a charismatic themselves). I have been over familiar with John MacArthur's vitriolic criticisms of all things charismatic for too long and have largely ignored what he said - because the man is a self-confessed cessationist and I doubt has ever had a spiritual experience of God in his life. Grady's criticisms while hard to hear can be more easily understood.

His latest chapter addresses Paul Cain - a well-known and at times controversial servant of God. I found this chapter painful because I know that some of Paul Cain's prophecies have had tremendous impact on churches and people I love - such as Newfrontiers ("changing the expression of Christianity around the world"). Grady had sat in one of Paul Cain's meetings in 1989 and documented and evaluated the prophecies Cain brought and suggested that they were false (such as wondering whether Cain had access to church directories - hence he could quote people's names and addresses).

To be honest - I don't know. I've heard very accurate prophecies quoting names and addresses from people like Paul Cain, Todd Bentley and Joshua Mills at the Glory and Grace Conference in Hong Kong. Could the prophecies they brought have been falsified and made up? Sure. Could they have been of God? I think so. We just don't know. Does that uncertainty nullify the gift of prophecy? NEVER!

Let me say this clearly - it is the most stupid and heinous error to state the gift of prophecy (or any other spiritual gifts the Holy Spirit graciously gives) has ceased - just because of the errors and excesses of some Christians.

But I think Grady brings a really helpful series of recommendations to this issue of servants of God who perhaps display the gifts of God in a less than "perfect" manner. His first point is not limited to the charismatic movement I strongly believe - followers of the "New Calvinist" movement who similarly deify non-charismatics such as Mark Driscoll, John Piper and C J Mahaney;

1. Don't deify human beings.

Grady writes; "Thousands of Christians had put Cain on a pedestal where no man or woman belongs. People expected him almost to be like God. It was a setup for disappointment - and ultimate failure".

I have observed some disappointment and uncertainty creep in with John Piper's very honest decision to take a sabbatical. Some of his "followers" have criticised him and others have wondered if he is in trouble. I wonder what would happen to the loyal SGM masses if C J Mahaney were to fall morally? I know he preaches often about humility and states he is the "worst sinner he knows" but would his followers and SGM survive? The fact is this - these men are ALL human beings. ALL are prone to sin. ALL are prone to mistakes. And ALL have been saved by grace and grace alone. BUT .... ALL can be used awesomely by God.

The genuine words that Paul Cain brought such as "changing the expression of Christianity" are not nullified in my eyes by his humanity. Because that was a word from God to Newfrontiers which they have responded to in faith and is being fulfilled steadily.

Don't abandon the prophetic words brought by human prophets just because they are human and may make mistakes. God is the same - and the word of love He brought still stands.

2. Don't Elevate Anointing over Character.

Grady said; "When Paul instructed Timothy to choose leaders for the churches he had planted, he gave a long list of qualifications. None of these had anything to do with supernatural anointing. Paul did not tell Timothy to choose men who could heal the sick, raise the dead or interpret dreams and visions. In fact the only anointing he required was to teach the Scriptures".

He goes on; "What this shows us is that while spiritual gifts are needed for the advancement of the Kingdom, they don't authorize people to be out front. Just because a person has a powerful anointing doesn't mean they should be given a role of influence in the church".

3. Dismiss the Sensational.

Grady quotes Todd Bentley and the 2008 Lakeland Revival in a critical manner - he clearly does not like Bentley's modus operandi. Again - I found this difficult to read because on the one hand I do agree that Bentley had some unfortunate methods. But I watched the Lakeland Revival avidly during early 2008 and I do believe that God was at work during that time. Some people I greatly respected from Rob Rufus's church in Hong Kong went to visit Lakeland and brought back a "good report" - they're not the kind of people to be swept away by emotionalism. So - let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater - like Paul Cain, Lakeland wasn't all bad.

But Grady's summary was good; "When a carnal man gets involved in the miraculous ministry of the Spirit, he will try to sensationalise it, bottle it and sell it. We should never support this kind of charismatic circus sideshow".

4. Teach and Practice Discernment.

Grady writes; "We cannot avoid deception without the Holy Spirit's supernatural work among us. Discerment is something we learn by experience as our spiritual senses are trained ... Discernment is manifested by a "knowing" - a deep, gut-level sense that something is off-base".

Once again Grady cites the manifestation of gold dust in a critical manner and praises a pastor who allegedly had it tested prior to a meeting and found the gold dust was plastic. Because the said pastor cancelled the meetings where the gold dust was appearing, Grady said the pastor protected the church from "spiritual pollution". Maybe some gold dust is plastic. Maybe some of it is from heaven. I suspect that there are some genuine experiences where gold dust may appear - but from those genuine experiences, stems a desperation for it to appear.

True spiritual discernment does not come from despising anything "odd" - but rather keeping the focus on God. Don't pray for gold dust to appear. Pray for God Himself to be welcome.

5. Enforce accountability.

Grady writes; "Because so many charismatics have left their established denominations and developed a distaste for religious control, we now have the opposite problem. Our movement is too independent ... Ministers who refuse to submit to standards of accountability are spiritual renegades - and God says rebellion is the same as the sin of witchcraft".

Interestingly in another chapter Grady writes disapprovingly of the Shepherding Movement and the call of Ern Baxter and his brothers to see such accountability among churches. So one presumes he sees something of a need for a balance. The Shepherding Movement was roundly condemned - but what Ern Baxter, Don Basham, Charles Simpson and Bob Mumford recognised was that church movements were all shaped like pyramids with "one man" at the head. Their aim was to bring those leaders together in a relationship of accountability. I don't see the problem resolved despite the condemning of Baxter et al's attempt. Newfrontiers has Terry Virgo at the head. SGM has C J Mahaney at the head. Mark Driscoll is at the head of whatever he heads. And so on. These men may protest that there is accountability "within their ranks". But it would be a brave man who would call a C J Mahaney to task - particularly when he has been put where he has by C J Mahaney.

As you may be gathering - I am enjoying the issues that J Lee Grady is raising but don't agree with them all. I don't like some of the examples he uses - but this issue of "deifying human beings" is a vital one.

Changing the World!!

I've spent the afternoon reading through some of my collections of past Restoration, New Wine and Renewal magazines. Everyone tends to focus on books in the Christian world - and indeed no one is more thankful for books than I. However we should not forget the importance of journals and magazines. In the academic world indeed - journals and magazines are seen as more current and up to date than books because of their more rapid production. I am toying with the best way to catalogue my magazines and journals so I can find key articles of interest. Maybe that's why journals and magazines are not quite as popular.

But I was particularly encouraged to read through the Newfrontiers Magazines. I love the vision and passion of these people! They ask the questions that few dare to ask. Guest author Dr Martin Robinson wrote an article called; "Movements to change the world" in the September/November 2004 edition and said;

"Can we imagine a world where Christians have creditable research, where we develop a grass roots network of activists to support particular campaigns and where we strategise winning campaigns to shape opinion and change legislation?".

This so "scratches where I itch" to use the words of a former hero of mine. Christianity has been blessed with so many great minds and hearts - Wayne Grudem, Don Carson, Sam Storms, John Piper, Terry Virgo - to name just a few. Why are we not impacting the world more than we are? Why aren't governments listening to us? Why isn't John Piper being invited to the White House to counsel Barak Obama on the issues facing the USA? Why isn't Terry Virgo being invited to pray for the Prime Minister and Cabinet here in London?

Then Martin Goldsmith makes it applicable to us;

"If you had stood at the end of the 18th century you would have been in despair. But in a single generation they turned it around. History is full of single generations that turned the tide".

And this is particularly what grabbed me;

"The future is determined not by apathetic majorities but by committed minorities".

Let me quote that again;

"The FUTURE is determined NOT by apathetic majorities but by COMMITTED minorities".

It occured to me why the devil does not need to make his demons known in the Western world. If we know that we are facing hordes of spiritual darkness that tends to motivate us to prayer. Depression and darkness can cause us to do nothing because of lack of hope - more than any other weapon in Satan's arsenal! The only way that we will determine the future is if we remain committed to our vision!

What do you believe in? And are you prepared to die for it?

Dave Holden Blog!!

I just absolutely have to draw attention to one of (in my opinion) the unsung heroes of Newfrontiers - Dave Holden. For a couple of years Dave hasn't spoken at "Together on a Mission" - I'm at a loss to understand why. I greatly appreciate and value Dave's preaching. He speaks so simply and so easily to understand but with such profound anointing. So I always tend to be on the watch hoping that Dave comes our way - but alas, as yet, I still hope!

I was thrilled today to find that Dave Holden has his own blog run at his home church - New Community Church in Sidcup, London. He blogs as he speaks - simply yet profoundly.

A couple of blogs I want to draw attention to;

1. Writing about the Newfrontiers Prayer and Fasting event and the focus on Revival, Dave said;

" One more thing, I still believe in the importance of the restoration of the Church. My passionate prayer is that restoring the Church is not an end in itself, but is actually vital for revival. Maybe the last 40 years of restoration has all been key, for when revival comes, the church will be able to contain, channel and overflow the power of revival in an unprecedented way, which will result in amazing lasting fruit to the glory of Jesus".

2. This blog in particular awakened such a hunger and an ache within me. WHY, WHY, WHY is this attitude so rare in Christian leaders particularly in the United Kingdom? Dave wrote about "Encountering God" and said;

We held an Encounter God evening at NCC. For some time now we have felt that we do not have enough time to just wait on God and minister to one another in the things of the Spirit, so we set aside an evening to do just that. It was a wonderful time and people turned out in great numbers.

It's great to be in a church where so many want more of God. Many were refreshed in their experience of God, many more moved on in gifts of the Spirit as they were encouraged to bring words over others for the first time. We had the privilege of leading several people into the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It's such a joy to see people being overwhelmed by the Spirit for the first time and reminds me of the importance of laying hands on people to receive as well as giving them the time to really breakthrough".

3. Another subject close to my heart - Dave wrote a blog on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I've noticed that many cautious charismatic churches are now watering down the active Presence and power of the Holy Spirit. They are calling themselves "continuationist" - a subtle but definite change. Rather than identifying themselves as churches that practice and believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, they are simply identifying that they believe the gifts of the Spirit have "continued". Dave writes;

"We continue to encourage folk to contribute in all of our meetings and to expect God to use them in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. As more and more "Charismatic" churches seem to have less and less gifts operating in their public meetings and performance rather than participation seems to be the way thing are going, I want to make an impassioned plea that we continue to stay biblical and truly "charismatic " by having more participation and less performance.

Gifts are wonderful. They are not optional and they are vital for enhancing our worship of Jesus, encouraging the members of the church and for impacting the unbeliever with the reality of a living God. 1 Cor 12-14 makes little sense if the expectation was not to have the operation of the gifts in our regular meetings".

And finally - and probably for me most importantly;

"It's time for more Holy Spirit activity, not less. So let's expect more gifts to be in operation".

I really look forward to being able to benefit from Dave Holden's incredible ministry through this blog and will be following it closely. New Community Church in Sidcup have a couple of other blogs related to the church - one in particular worth a read is;

"Sermon Q and A Blog" - a chance for listeners to text in their questions to the preachers.

Do Something Unexpected!!

I have a confession - I am a major "Heroes" fan. I love everything about it - the drama, the superpowers and the character development of the various people coming to terms with their powers - such as learning they can fly, learning they are invulnerable, learning they can paint the future, learning they can freeze time or time-travel - but most interestingly (and the character I am fascinated with the most - Peter Petrelli) learning that he can absorb the abilities of anyone else that he is around - or in other words an empath. In Series 1 of "Heroes" Peter Petrelli goes through some training with another character who can make himself invisible. He realises he has numerous abilities but does not know how to control them.

Watch this video clip to give you an idea of what the training involves;



I was gripped by that phrase; "Do something unexpected!". I have just been typing up Rob Rufus's sermon; "The Administration Of Healing Authority" and was again impacted by something that he said during the course of the sermon;

"I believe I am releasing the faith that you have already got. When you come to pray for the sick, don't have an Old Covenant mindset. Old Covenant mindsets always think; "I haven't got enough or I need more or I'm not ready or I'm not prepared". New Covenant mindsets - you are ready! You are in Christ! The Spirit of life is in you! He knows what to do - you have ENOUGH! You are ready! Don't let the devil say to you; "You have got to fast to get this demon out". You do NOT need to fast to get that demon out!".

I must admit, despite my years of being a Christian - this is a new concept for me. I've come from the more traditional revivalist belief that we should be constantly praying that He would "rend the heavens and come down" and earnestly be seeking to be "filled with the Spirit" like a leaky cup! While I still believe that has it's place and there most definately are climates where God falls on a community, a church or on people (such as at Lakeland) - this shouldn't become an excuse for us to not pray for the sick but to sit back waiting for some "power" to fall on us and boot us out to go and do the job that God called us to!

So where does "Heroes" and Rob's quote come together? That comment; "Do something unexpected!". The invisible man forced Peter Petrelli into a state where he HAD to do something - where he HAD to demonstrate a power or an ability to stop himself from being beaten by that stick. I think when I heard that quote of Rob's, I suddenly began to walk with a new awareness about myself. And it's my prayer that everyone who reads this blog will begin to do the same. It's this truth;

" ... what is the surprassing greatness of His power towards us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places far above all rule amd authority and power and dominion , and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put ALL THINGS in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church".

When we are presented with that absolute power and authority then suddenly the truth of sickness or cancer or blindness or deafness or paralysis or even death itself doesn't seem to be much of an obstacle at all. Yet that "surpassing great power" is towards US! Who believe! And we have that very Holy Spirit within US who raised Jesus from the dead! It's there already. Within us. And every prayer we utter to God pleading for "more" surely is grieving to the wonderful precious Person of the Holy Spirit.

Like Peter Petrelli off "Heroes" - it seems to me all that is waiting for us to do is "something unexpected"! Who knows - the next blind person we pass, the next cripple we come across, the next cancer victim we encounter just could be the one that stands up healed and praising the power of God!