Jesse Phillips on Experiencing God

I wonder if any readers remember Jesse Phillips - one of the wonderful pastors at Metro Life Church in Florida. It's a church on my hit list to definitely visit one day when money permits not least to finally meet Jesse and Janelle! But Jesse used to run a brilliant blog I loved called; "Prophetically Speaking". Due to demands on his time he had to sadly discontinue it. But I was sorting out my computer files today and found a Word file I am so glad I kept. When I knew that he was going to stop the blog, I saved all his blog posts for just such an occasion.

I was refreshed by reading this again and re-challenged!

Here's some of what he wrote. We need sensible charismatics who can argue from Scripture when you have cessationists such as Phil Johnson attacking charismatic doctrine (and not arguing from Scripture but experience I might add);

Cessationists can be driven by experience

What if I told you, "We need to go start a revival"? Or, "We need to experience more of God's power and have some amazing encounters with the Holy Ghost"? Or, "What the church really needs is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts"?

How would you respond? You'd probably be concerned that I was turning into some kind of wild revivalist. You would think back to your own experience of how people abused the gifts and would be concerned that I was headed in the same direction.

You may say something like, "I know where that goes and we don't want to go there again." There is certainly much wisdom to be gained from experience. It does not make sense to keep repeating the same mistakes again and again.

There is, however, a universal human tendency to overreact to abuse and misdiagnose the problem. Whenever someone is shot and killed on the street, all of us face the temptation to ask how the criminal came into possession of a gun before asking why hatred filled his heart. Guns can be misused, but they are not the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is in the person doing the abusing not the thing that is abused.

As good as wisdom from experience is, it also has limitations. It can lead to these misdiagnoses of problems.

And so, if you were to tell me, "I know where that goes" I would venture to ask, "Even though that's where it led last time, is it possible that it might not lead to the same place this time?" What if we were able to pursue the same things, yet learning from the abuses, be able to enjoy them in a way that is proper this time around?

There is a fine line between gaining wisdom from experience and investing authority in experience.

One of the reasons why people warn against things like revivalism and hot pursuit of the spiritual gifts is because some revivalists are emotionalists, placing authority in experience rather than scripture.

But here's my argument: it's just as easy for people who have had bad experiences to be driven by those experiences, rather than scripture. People who move away from the 'experiential' can, ironically, be just as driven by experience, either their own or others that they want at all costs to avoid. This is simply a different form of experientialism.

Many cessationists and others who have seen the abuses of the spiritual gifts would rather 'not go there' because of bad experiences. They invest authority in percieved bad experiencs and this motivates them toward avoidance, allowing their experiences to unduly influence their opinions on what is true and right.

Is there really a difference between being driven by bad experiences and idolizing good ones? Aren't both things different sides of the coin of experientialism?

I think that cessationists can be experientialists in as much as they think, "This can't be God's will, look at all this abuse." It's one thing to defend your view from scripture (which many cessationists, to their credit, try to do), and quite another to base it on your experience, good or bad.

I think that many cessationists and 'functional cessationists' are somewhat experiential, perhaps a bit more influenced by bad experiences, or the potential of, or the report of, than they they might be aware.

The person who has had a bad experience, and doesn't want any more bad experiences is just as driven by experience as the person who strongly wants a positive experience. The only differences that one is driven positively and the other driven negatively.

We must recognize the differences between abusing the gifts and the gifts themselves. We must also recognize the limitations of the wisdom that comes through experience. Finally, all of us, cessationists, charismatics and everyone in between, must learn to pursue experiences without investing them with authority.

There's one thing we can all be certain of: we'll never fully experience anything that we pursue only cautiously, God or his gifts.

Qualified for the Ministry?

Over the last couple of days a number of various blogs have raised the whole issue of what qualifies or disqualifies a minister of the Gospel - and it's been useful to consider the whole issue. I guess in a way this is a "blog-spot";

1. Phil Johnson of the "Pyromaniacs" has written a devastating critique of the danger of charismatic theology. His rationale (or lack of) is not Scripture but anecdotes on Paul Cain and his moral fall. According to Johnson - Cain's moral fall disqualifies not only Cain as a prophet but indeed charismatic theology. I am writing a response to Phil Johnson because I think this requires a longer answer.

2. Dave Harvey of SGM has blogged again reflecting on the independent panel assessment declaring C J Mahaney fit for ministry. The whole question seems to be whether C J was right to step down before declared fit or unfit - and the question as to whether the sins of pride, arrogance, legalism, blackmail and so on disqualify him - the panel think not.

3. Brent Detweiler has blogged a good post considering the SGM situation from his point of view. He rightly and acutely points out that we are not quite sure what C J has really confessed to - so how can we know whether that disqualifies him or not?

It is an important question. Dave Harvey uses the words; "public scandal" - and seems to think that the involvement of a public scandal would be the deciding factor. So therefore from Harvey's logic - we could assume that sexual or moral and financial failure (money, sex) would be the contributing factor. But what occurs to me is where they get this justification from. Scripture?

I've been discussing this issue with Pete Day and he noted some other well-known leaders and some of their sins of humanity. He said a good point regarding Johnson and Harvey's "logic";

Would he say that the whole of Martin Luther's ministry should be invalidated because of his hatred of Jews? Or indeed the whole reformation????

Would he say that Calvin's ministry should be invalidated because of his alleged consent to the burning of heretics?? Or indeed the whole of Calvinism????

Would he say that Paul's ministry should be invalidated because of his bust up with Barnabas???? Or indeed all of his epistles????

Together on a Mission 2011 - Day 3!

Today was the final session Terry Virgo spoke at - so the thousands gathered knew it was going to be special. I just wasn't prepared for quite how special.

The lively Evan Rodgers from South Africa and then Dubai led worship which was the usual dancing and clappy songs and then Terry came to speak. He pointed out that a high chair had been set beside him and asked what it was for - he explained that he felt led to "sit and chat to us" for his last session. Here's what he said;

"I was working on the third part of Hebrews and there were some wonderful things there. "You have come to Zion!". But it was dying. So I prayed and God said that this is a historic event and I should chat about things that really matter. So therefore I want to highlight things that really matter to me.

1. God's Initiative.

"The mission of God" - this is God's mission not ours. He chose Jacob not Esau. He has known us before He formed us in the womb. God knew me before time began! God's free grace runs right through who we are. It gives us a sense of destiny. God has initiated some thing in His purpose for me. "Not dependent on who I am or what I have done or deserved - it is a gift of mercy from God". And the greatest thing we can do is align ourselves with Him!

2. God's Enabling.

The coming upon of the Holy Spirit is a matter of life and death! We were useless Christians! This isn't an academic issue. We knew "powerlessness". The Holy Spirit will come "upon" you. The next word in nearly every verse is "and". The Spirit comes upon us to do things. What was the secret of Samson? Not his muscles but the Spirit who came "upon" Him!

It is easy to be cessationist because when you believe in the Spirit's coming upon, you will always be wrestling.

The coming upon of the Spirit will always lead to things! "Already but not yet". God wants to empower us - it can leave us aching because we don't see as much as we want but we must press through because we need more of the Holy Spirit! We need the power of the Holy Spirit to see more of the Kingdom break out! Some would say we are dialling down on the Holy Spirit to become more missional - the Early Church would not see or allow that!

3. God's Commissioning.

We want to be a sent people. It is important to know what theological training does and does not do - it is not the same as being sent! That commissioning from heaven is a commissioning from God. The awareness is that we answer to Him! (1 Thessalonians 2:3-4). The sense of being called by God should make us almost invincible. "The church stands for divine truth and divine inspiration or it stands for nothing at all" - Matthew Parris - The Times. We do stand for so many truths. God has apprehended and commissioned us. We are answerable to Him alone.

4. Being a servant.

A servant doesn't require explanations. He wants His servants to do what they are told. They got used to doing what they are told and we only need to know that God has told us - not His explanation. God said about David; "A man who will do all My will". Let's have that characteristic - trust His providential overshadowing! Ken Gott prophesied millions of pounds and millions of people! Let that characterise who we are - we are to be the servants of God. Where is the sharp edge and the contrast?

5. Faith.

God loves faith! Sometimes we look at groups of churches and question some of their doctrine or practice but you cannot deny that they do great and bold things and God blesses that! He just seems to love faith! Mega churches are growing throughout China, India. We are in little league. The Chinese economy is coming alive and a secular writer commented that Chinese growth is being affected by the back bone of spiritual life. Launch out with faith - not just apportioning! Beware the danger of a passive Calvinism!

Charles Simpson once came and preached at the last Downs Bible Week. Our theme was "World Changer!" and he was initially somewhat cynical. He had been greatly hurt by the controversies affecting the Shepherding Movement in the USA. However in the weekend in between weeks, I had some precious fellowship and was able to share with him. The second week came and he changed his message to one inspired by our theme. 6,000 in a small field in Plumpton!

"Success-victory-winners!". Oh you English - God change us out of our cynicism. Launch us with faith!

6. Prayer.

"A move of God will last only as long as the spirit of prayer that brought it to birth" - (Arthur Wallis).

Jesus prayed a lot and with faith. Do you want to be like Jesus? He prayed a lot!

7. Gathering a Team.

That means to me, friends and companions. We gain friends! Not co-labourers but true friends. People who make up my areas of lack. Being interviewed helps you find out what you believe. What makes a team? Vulnerability. Have a team because we need a team. Draw from one another - prayer partners and men of the Spirit! Our team often find ourselves in "prophetic conversations" - you pray and then start talking and the whole conversation becomes prophetic! As elders - don't just sit around talking. Get before God! The team are by no means yes men. Go for it but with love!

Submission isn't saying "Yes" every time!

Terry then went on to cite the closest men in his team who have played such key parts in Newfrontiers.

Dave Holden

Dave Devenish

Colin Baron

David Stroud.

Jeremy Simpkin

Mike Betts

Guy Miller

Stephen van Rhyn

PJ Symthe

Steve Oliver

Edward Buria

John Kpipi

and Peter Brookes in the Pacific Rim!

This is a snapshot of "now" we are reminded! And there are young men such as Joel Virgo coming through. Terry then went on to give a lot of detail about changes from now in what is known as Newfrontiers.

Especially:

The Newfrontiers Magazine will stop - penultimate edition.

The Newfrontiers Brighton office is closing.

Terry will begin to become "less and less" while the team men become "more and more".

On this he mentioned specifically travelling and ministering to non-Newfrontiers groups such as the Pentecostals in France. He mentioned visiting a "group who are struggling very recently in Washington DC" (no prizes for guessing who - but I am SO glad that they have asked Terry to come and have some input, that it isn't just limited to cessationist, Reformed men such as Mark Dever).

He then ended by a very moving and personal tribute to Nigel Ring - the man who has made so many of these conferences and Bible Weeks and so much of Newfrontiers possible. You could tell that Nigel was very moved and touched and surprised. I must admit to leaving the session feeling quite emotional and bittersweet - just like when we left Stoneleigh Bible Week 2001. But boy - am I glad that we went for these key messages of "Together on a Mission 2011"!

History in the making indeed.

Brighton Conference ... with a difference!!

Well I am really excited that this time next week we will be in Brighton having enjoyed the last "Together on a Mission" conference that will be held. However in 2005, 6 and 7 we booked to go to the whole conference and went to the packed week. The conference has always been the most powerful encounter with God that I have had - Word and Spirit combined together in power!

This year I have decided to enjoy the conference slightly differently. We are going to one session a day - namely Terry Virgo's afternoon session. On the Thursday of next week - we will also be going to the unforgettable Prayer and Offering Evening and then on the Friday (the last day of the conference) we will be going to the last session to hear Dave Holden speak and close the conference.

I have never yet been to a Brighton conference and come away untouched so am massively full of hope for what next week will bring!

Desperate Need for Word AND Spirit

One of the reasons I had a profound respect for the "Life in the Spirit Conference" was it's unique emphasis on reformed doctrine and charismatic experience. It is a small, not so well known conference that takes place annually in the UK and has had some well known speakers such as Terry Virgo, Ern Baxter, Roy Clements and others. My senior pastor Dr Stanley Jebb used to be on the committee and was a regular speaker.

One year back in 1987 he made this profound statement - that still holds so true;

"Neither a neglect of the words He has given or a denial of the power He provides will ultimately glorify Him. We need both! Anyone (unless they are ignorant) cannot say that the reformed camp or the charismatic camp have it all".

He was speaking on; "Reformed Doctrine and Charismatic Experience" - the one message that sums up the conference, and indeed the desperate need of the hour. I am not convinced that even these many years later that we are closer to uniting Word and Spirit but so desperately need it. Fuel and fire!

Thoughts following Anthony Hopkins in "The Rite"

I watched Anthony Hopkins star in the 2011 film; "The Rite" last night and have to say I found it quite thought provoking. For those who are unaware of the film - it follows a young atheist who decides to go into the priesthood and ends up conducting a course on exorcism at the Vatican. He is advised to meet "unorthodox" exorcist Father Lucas (Hopkins) and ends up watching a number of exorcisms that (in typical Hollywood fashion) are quite disturbing. Hopkins makes a number of profound statements about the reality of spiritual warfare;

"Does a burglar turn on the lights? No - he prefers you to know that he isn't there. Just so with demons ... Choosing not to believe in the devil won't protect you from him".

But what occurred to me while I was trying to go to sleep was a couple of issues;

1. Why do we not see more exorcisms or demons manifesting in the Western world? I can't believe the demons have left simply because we are more "intelligent". No - as Hopkins says, like a burglar I think they prefer to let us continue believing they're not here.

2. I was reminded of something that C J Mahaney said about the late John Wimber. While I didn't agree with the context Mahaney used the statement - I agree he had a point. Mahaney was addressing the SGM Leadership Conference some years ago just prior to the launch of Jeff Purswell's "Amendment" paper on the Holy Spirit.

Mahaney commented that John Wimber believed the baptism of the Holy Spirit happened simultaneously with conversion - and yet was one of the most powerful men of the Spirit that he knew. He said something like;

"If I needed healing - who would I go to? Mahaney who believes the baptism of the Holy Spirit is distinct from conversion or Wimber?".

The logic of the statement is breathtakingly doubtful but Mahaney had a point that re-occured to me last night. The head bishop leading the exorcism class knew all the "head" knowledge about the forces of evil - Satan's hierarchy and so on. But it was to the Hopkins character that the doubting young judge was sent - the "unorthodox" priest.

The only exorcisms I have seen are by Christians that would probably be also called "unorthodox". I think particularly of Rob Rufus. I remember being amazed (although I shouldn't have) at the "Together on a Mission 2006" conference in Brighton when Rob called out a word of knowledge that there was a man there with a spirit of suicide on him. The man came to the front and manifested a demon instantly which Rob calmly cast out. There was no Hollywood dramatics - in fact I remember Rob told the demon it was not to show off.

What kind of Christian leaders would you go to if you realised you were afflicted by demon possession? Or what kind of Christian leaders would you go to if you were desperately afflicted with cancer and needed a divine miracle of healing? New Testament scholars like D A Carson or Thomas Schriener (if they would even see you?) or Reformed, non-charismatic leaders like C J Mahaney or Mark Dever or Al Mohler (if they would see you too!) or even "cautious" charismatics like Mark Driscoll? Or would you go to men or women that some would consider "unorthodox" - indeed some claimed guilty of telling "urban legends" like Rob or Terry Virgo or David Devenish?

It's an interesting thought.

In my life I so try to "hold the tension" between Word and Spirit - Reformed doctrine and charismatic experience. Am I falling too far on the "Word" side because I want to be well thought of? Is it really possible to be buck the trend and not fall into the error Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones called; "Perfectly orthodox - perfectly useless"?!

But it's interesting thinking who you would go to for help if say a demon was to manifest itself and you needed guidance and help!

How Great Thou Art!

I hardly need mention that I am a charismatic in every sense of the word - loving worship that engages with God by the Spirit. I love modern song-writers, I love bands and my favourite worship leaders are women such as Lou Fellingham, Kate Simmonds and Darlene Zschech.

But I'm slightly a bit of an anomoly in that there is a powerful part of me that loves the mighty sung hymn written by men such as Charles Wesley. You cannot surpass singing your heart and soul out to a thundering organ and gathered orchestra. I guess this influence came from Dunstable, Stanley Jebb and the church which always loved to sing hymns along with the charismatic choruses.

So today I've been sorting out, unpacking and tidying my study/library and have been playing the latest album release from the wonderful All Souls Orchestra - "How Great Thou Art" - and an unashamed to admit I stood in the study with tears rolling down my cheeks as I enjoyed them sing the namesake of the album - the great hymn; "How great Thou art!". Here's the lyrics that really, really hit me;

"And when I think that God his son not sparing,

Sent him to die - I scarce can take it in,
That on the cross my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin:

He bled and died to "TAKE AWAY" my sin! So if He went through that awful agony to take it away then why do I invest so much time trying to remember and mortify sin that is dead and doesn't exist anymore?

And this verse! Ah!

"When Christ shall come with shout of acclamation

And take me home- what joy shall fill my heart!
Then I shall bow in humble adoration
And there proclaim, my God, how great thou art!".

For those who are unfamiliar with the All Souls Orchestra and choir - here's a video below giving a taster with Stuart Townend.

The Holy Spirit is NOT for Sale!!

I love it when I walk around a Christian bookshop and I experience a book title reaching out and grabbing me (not literally). This latest book by J Lee Grady (Editor of Charisma Magazine) is called; "The Holy Spirit is Not for Sale!". I have heard of Grady but am not familiar with him. It was the foreword by Dr R T Kendall that made me knew I had to buy it. R T Kendall is one of my heroes and those who have sat under his preaching as I have know that he is not fooled lightly (some may disagree with that - but that's my personal opinion). Dr Kendall wrote;

"I could not put this book down. It is compulsive reading. But it is more than that: it is essential reading for every person who professes to be a charismatic Christian ... this book could be a turning point for the charismatic movement".

What caught my attention the most in flicking through the book in the bookshop was how J Lee Grady is drawing on the experiences of the Third World for US here in the Westernised world to learn from. I am tired of the concept of the Western world sending "missionaries" to the Third World. Like the risen and glorified Christ said to the church in Revelation 3:17;

"You think you are rich - but you are poor".

We have wasted our glorious inheritance of various movements of the Holy Spirit and have allowed theological pride and snobbery to quench the power of the Spirit. The fact that Dr John Piper has to even answer the question; "Do you believe we should cast out demons today?" - suggests a complete blindness on the part of the Western church in ignoring the gospel.

Anyway one chapter that stood out to me straight away was dealing with the issues of spiritual authoritarianism. Grady writes; "How can we know when a particular church or church leader is crossing into the danger zone of authoritarianism? Here are seven warning signs I have detected in my own experience".

1. Lack of accountability.

Grady writes: "If a pastor or a church leader is not open to correction from his colleagues, he has set himself up for failure and displayed a blatant form of pride".

2. Lack of acceptance of other denominations, churches or ministries.

Grady writes: "We need to expect our leaders to display an attitude of humility towards the rest of the Body of Christ".

3. An atmosphere of control.

Grady says; "Authoritarian church leaders are masters at using Scripture to manipulate people. They often quote 1 Chronicles 16:22; "Do not touch My anointed ones". Another favourite is Hebrews 13:17; "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority" ... such passages can be used to intimidate people and keep them from challenging wrong. Some pastors don't recognise the difference between valid criticism and slander".

4. Dominating attitudes in leaders, usually manifested by haughtiness and anger.

"Tyrants are surprisingly similar. Because they want to control their surroundings, they often blow up when people do not conform to their demands or don't do so as quickly as they wish. We might expect bullying in the corporate world but we should not tolerate it among church leaders".

5. Emphasis on leaders hearing God for the people, rather than encouraging them to hear God for themselves.

I should add that one of my major concerns with Sovereign Grace Ministries recently came from Jeff Purswell's well publicized comment; "You" (speaking to SGM preachers) "are standing in the very stead of God". That scares me because surely it puts SGM church members in a difficult position. If your SGM leader preaches something that worries you - you are not just disagreeing with man. You are disagreeing with someone "standing in for God".

Grady writes; "In authoritarian church situations, members are not encouraged to seek God's guidance for themselves. Rather they are urged to conform to their leader's preferences ... thus the church members develop an unhealthy dependence on man in order to function spiritually and a diminished ability to trust God".

6. Leaders assuming ownership of their people and churches.

Grady says; "In authoritarian churches ... the church is governed once again like a dictatorship ... pastor's salaries remain undisclosed and the pastor maintains control of the church board if there is one ... such a system is a far cry from the biblical view of the church as a living organism, kept vibrant as each member plays a part. All church members should share a sense of ownership in the local church".

7. Women viewed as inferior.

This is one that I am particularly fierce about. I've got one mother and seven sisters and have grown up in two churches that do have the tendency to treat women as inferior. I'll never forget one experience sitting in a home group and seeing the pastor turn to his heavily pregnant wife and say; "Dear - will you go and make the coffee?". What?!?!?! Why can't you get up off your backside and go and make it!?

Grady writes; "In most (authoritarian churches) women are viewed as important only in their function as wives and mothers and they are not encouraged to step beyond these confines to pursue ministry opportunities ... women eager to be used by God or to share their spiritual insights with church leaders are branded rebels or "Jezebels"".

Terry Virgo on Being Reformed and Charismatic

It occurred to me that the Reformed/Charismatic tension is still one that doesn't seem to be wholly "cracked" at present. It certainly seemed close at one stage. Men like Ern Baxter, Terry Virgo (and for a time Stanley Jebb in our circles) taught so well on it on holding that tension. But I always used to think that the problem lay with charismatic life. That excesses seen in various moves of God like the Toronto Blessing or Lakeland scared people off. Now I'm not so sure. I met with the hospital chaplain at work and we found out we had a similar background - and got on to discussing Calvinism and why it seems that the theological viewpoint that should make Christians most humble and most worshipful seem to produce a judgemental, proud and arrogant spirit.

So actually I am wondering whether the reason why it is so tricky to hold a tension between Reformed and Charismatic life is because of the reformed doctrines and the fact that we are not allowing the glorious truth of them to become reality in our hearts. However there is no better movement of churches who is getting close than Newfrontiers in my opinion. They honour reformed doctrine but value charismatic life so much and that gives me massive encouragement. It was great to find the following video with Terry Virgo discussing this very issue;

Terry Virgo: Being Reformed and Charismatic from Jubilee Church on Vimeo.

Cessationism = Careful or Quenching?

Any who step across the portals of this blog will know I do not have a high opinion of the cessationist position. I have no shame in stating I passionately believe that all gifts of the Holy Spirit are given and distributed "as He will" today and are for the building up and edifying of the risen Lord's church. It was useful to be reminded by Stanley Jebb's recent blog post however that some cessationists don't like the claim that they are skeptical and guilty of quenching the Spirit;

"Christians who hold to a cessationist position are not skeptics nor unbelievers but are generally concerned conservative or reformed evangelical Christians who hold certain views about miracles, signs and wonders".

Traditionally the expectation has been on charismatic Christians to explain why they believe gifts should and do happen today. I think the environment has now changed - thanks to theologians such as D A Carson and Wayne Grudem and my favourite - Gordon Fee - along with others who have argued rationally and intellectually that there is NO Biblical statement that suggests the gifts of the Holy Spirit have passed away or ceased. Therefore I believe that that it is now upto cessationists to prove themselves.

If Stanley Jebb is correct in stating that cessationists are neither skeptics nor unbelievers but simply "concerned" Christians who hold to the supremacy of the Word of God then they need to argue consistently from Scripture - and not resort to scaremongering or citing examples of excess such as the "tortilla lady" that so upset John MacArthur. Cessationists claim to stand for orthodoxy. Stanley Jebb calls cessationists; "Concerned conservative or reformed evangelical Christians" - so the question we are left with is; "Is orthodoxy enough?".

Dr Martyn Ll0yd-Jones would think not;

"It is becoming clear to everybody - at least it should be - that the Christian church today is failing and failing lamentably. It is not enough even to be orthodox ... people want a word of authority ... We need authority and we need authentication. It is not enough merely that we state these things and demonstrate them and put them logically. Is it not clear that we are living in an age when we need some special authentication - in other words we need revival".

During the sermon Dr Lloyd-Jones then goes on to speak about cessationism. He begins by working carefully through the New Testament passages that demonstrate the gifts of the Spirit never ceased and summarises;

"It is perfectly clear in the New Testament times, the gospel was authenticated in this way by signs, wonders and miracles of various characters and descriptions. And you cannot begin to understand the New Testament, the epistles as well as the book of Acts without holding that fact in your mind".

One of the things that really irks me about cessationism is that they have divorced signs and wonders and gifts of the Spirit from the gospel - the spreading flame. The New Testament shows clearly that unbelievers are to come into the midst of believers "standing and prophesying" and the result is that they will be convicted, will fall down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Spiritual gifts should impress and attract the world!

To distort the Word of God to claim these have ceased has stunted and robbed unbelievers of a means by which God intended to reveal Himself to them.

Let us be clear! 1 Corinthians 14:24 does NOT state (in this instance) that unbelievers come in and hear the "preaching". It speaks of them coming in and hearing the "prophesying" - the inspired, instant, Spirit-inspired utterances of the gathered church! Orthodoxy? What is "cautious" orthodoxy doing to save the lost masses in London, Birmingham, Bombay, Calcutta and of course China? Caution? Dr Lloyd-Jones summarises this cessationist argument as;

"We have got the truth so you do not need anything miraculous or supernatural".

His answer?

"The Scriptures never anywhere say that these things were only temporary - never! There is no such statement anywhere! "

This post is not the place for a careful work through of the Scriptures cessationists like to use to claim the charismatic gifts have ceased (such as 1 Corinthians 13). My question is - are cessationists justified in claiming they are not trying to quench the Spirit but are rather "cautious" orthodox evangelicals. We must state the obvious - I don't believe ANY Christian would deliberately (at least I hope not) quench the Holy Spirit. Sadly they do. But I think the jury must remain out. All I see still of cessationist arguments are a people who are gripped by a spirit of self-control. They do not like being subject to the Holy Spirit and His designs and plans for advancing His church.

My personal experience and childhood is vastly different. I remember a glorious childhood growing up in a charismatic (yet never out of control) church. I remember what seemed like hours of heavenly worship standing with my parents watching and learning as they seemed "lost in wonder, love and praise". Sometimes someone would speak out in a strange tongue - and it didn't seem odd. It seemed fascinating. I remember even some of the elders bringing carefully weighed prophecies (rarely "silly remarks" that I remember as Stanley Jebb claims) that lifted even our hearts as children to God.

Then I remember the environment changing very definately. People eager to share prophecies would go up to the platform and speak with the elders and be sent down to their seats without being allowed to share (we would call it the "walk of shame"). Choruses and love songs were sung less and less and painfully tuneless hymns were sung more and more. Non-Christian friends of the family who would visit with us would ask; "Why have you lot become so miserable?".

Caution is okay - but it is a fine balance to walk before caution becomes quenching of the Holy Spirit. Let Dr Lloyd-Jones have the last word;

"This to me is one of the most urgent matters at this hour. With the church as she is and the world as it is, the greatest need today is the power of God through His Spirit in the church that we may testify not only to the power of the Spirit but to the glory and praise of the one and only Saviour - Jesus Christ our Lord".

A Charismatic Baby in a Bath of Excess

I consider myself fortunate to have been in a rather unique position in my church experience. Many grow up in one denomination or another and know little else. My experience (and that of some of my blogging friends) is slightly different.

1. I grew up in a reformed charismatic church called "New Covenant Church".

2. I then watched it change into a cessationist reformed church called "West Street Baptist Church".

3. I went to back into charismatic circles in the "Newfrontiers" family (again reformed and charismatic).

4. I spent 2 years in reformed evangelicalism in "Sovereign Grace Ministries".

5. I am now happily back in charismatic circles particularly enjoying fellowship with Rob and Glenda Rufus's church in Hong Kong called "City Church International" that has taught me about the grace of God for the first time.

So why is this so fortunate? I have experienced both charismatic and cessationist life. My former senior pastor Dr Stanley Jebb wrote a post yesterday called; "Why I Left the Charismatic Movement". The reasons were no secret but this is the first time he has really written them down. Let me say that Dr Jebb is a man I hold in the absolute highest esteem. I possess several hundred audio tapes of his ministry (both pre and post charismatic) and love listening to them still. I love his insight into the Word of God and his relationship with God. My respect for him is unchanged over his decision. It doesn't mean I agree with it.

So there's a reason why I see no need to leave the charismatic movement.

Dr Jebb's main reason is this;

"One of which is the number of charismatic leaders that have fallen morally. Yes I know that Reformed and Evangelical leaders have fallen also. But there is this difference: charismatics claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Furthermore they claim to manifest spiritual gifts such as prophecy which can reveal what is in a person's heart".

This premise would work only if reformed and evangelical leaders do NOT claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit (and they do - only they argue they get it "all" at conversion). Secondly this premise would only work if it could be proved that being filled with the Holy Spirit eradicated sin - such as the Holiness movement used to teach. And it doesn't. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is the most glorious and wonderful encounter with God - if anything it exposes brings an added degree of spiritual warfare and temptation.

Was the charismatic movement perfect? No - far from it. There was excess and moral falls. But any church historian worth their salt knows that this is always the case when God by His Spirit is at work. The devil doesn't want the church alive or full of life. Dr Jebb tried to bring a word of balance by saying;

"Many churches and ministers who are sound in doctrine, orthodox in theology also give the appearance of being lifeless if not dead".

With that I do agree. I suggest the devil is not particularly bothered by lifeless and dead-looking churches because they are unnoticable to the community around them. Such churches fill every stereotype the world expects - dull and dreary hymns in dusty pews with long monotonous preaching. But when the Holy Spirit brings life to His church then things happen! The world notices! For example I remember as a child at church;

1. Doing a "March For Jesus" through our home town along crowded streets.

2. Holding a prayer meeting for rain up the hills around our town during a drought - with the result that rain did come.

3. Praying for the closure of a night club in our town that caused increased crime - with the result (I believe) that it closed.

4. Praying for the capture of a serial rapist around our town (known as "The Fox") - with the result that he was captured and arrested by a policeman who attended our church (among others).

And those are just the examples of life I remember! I am not trying to say that the moral fall of charismatic leaders is not and was not serious. It is always heart-breaking and I am sure particularly for Dr Jebb who knew many of them personally. But I do not and will not agree that the counterfeit actions and temptations of the devil is worth throwing the life and power of God out.

There is much more I could have said about Dr Jebb's dismission of spiritual gifts but I think that is unncecessary. Most will know my attitude towards spiritual gifts - that yes there may be a degree of "pretended" revelations. But my life has been changed by prophecies that "exposed the secrets of my heart" (not to condemn and reveal 'sin' as Dr Jebb suggests) but to "exhort, edify and encourage" (as 1 Corinthians suggests). I am eternally grateful for the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit and suggest that instead of seeking;

" ... earnest, fervent, believing-prayer ... (instead of) ... pseudo-gifts, carnal excitement and pretended revelations"

We should see earnest, fervent, believing prayer AND the genuine powerful spiritual gifts, the excitement and thrill of the Presence of God and genuine, real revelations from the Word of God. Why have to choose one or the other when both is freely available?

A Day at CCK, Brighton!!

I was fascinated to come back from Brighton to read Mark Heath's latest post looking specifically at four different directions Newfrontiers could be going in. I think they could easily apply to churches generally but what made it so applicable was the experience we have had being at Church of Christ the King in Brighton today. I want to make it clear that the three hour drive back to Birmingham was largely spent discussing in depth the two services we were at this wonderful church so this isn't an "off-the-cuff" post but one that has been discussed and thought through in depth!

Before I get into my report on today - for those who don't have time to get over to Mark's post - here's a very brief summary of the four positions he outlines. Where are we going?

1. Church Growth – (Bill Hybels, Hillsong, Rick Warren)

2. Reformissional - (Tim Keller, Mark Driscoll and maybe C J Mahaney and Wayne Grudem)

3. Neo-Pentecostal - (Rob Rufus, Todd Bentley)

4. Emerging Church (Rob Bell and Brian McLaren and Steve Chalke)

Now before I get into discussing my opinion on where I think Newfrontiers is headed in light of my experience today - here's a more objective report on CCK, Brighton and more specifically what Terry Virgo preached on.

Simon Brading was leading the worship from the keyboard and we began by singing just two songs before one of the leaders came up and led us in a time of communion. Then there were the obligatory notices and the "speak to someone you don't know" - while Terry Virgo got ready to come up and speak.

Terry spent some time bringing a report back from the months he has spent in Australia as this is the first time he has spoken at his home church since getting back. Here's a short video clip;

It was exciting to hear about what God is doing out on the "Pacific Rim" particularly at the interest in Japan there is to hear more about the grace of God. Terry has been invited back in 2010 to speak at a national conference and his book; "God's Lavish Grace" is going to be translated into Japanese. The advance of the Gospel indeed! He then introduced his sermon - a continuing of the series on "Elijah" that he has been doing over the past year or two.

Here are my notes;

1 Kings 18 (NASB) - Elijah

Elijah came and confronted a king about a nation that had tragically lost its way. God had promised Abraham that through him, He would bless the whole world. They had the high privilidge of coming to Sinai and hearing the voice of God. He called them; "My Bride - I am married to you". Look at the Psalms and you will see they knew who they were. In the preceding chapters you will see over 58 years seven kings came and went and they forgot who they were. They ceased to represent God and enjoy God. Having come into the land they saw other gods here. They learned how to cultivate. King after king yielded ground and the nation that was meant to be the light of the world - now made it illegal to worship Israel's God under Ahab. Into this Elijah was sent to confront Ahab and said unless you change, God will act. God will capture your attention and bring you down! It is a bit like God pulling the plug on the banks. We are falling apart - what is going on?! God can turn a flourishing place into a desert (Psalm 107). Ahab will be further confronted by Elijah.

"How long will you limp between two opinions? If the Lord is God follow Him".

1. Behold Elijah.

"Now Elijah ...". No background to him - he just appeared. God is ready to start speaking again. This period of humbling is over and God is going to show mercy. The Bible repeatedly says that God will not over test His people. "If He causes grief then He will have compassion" (Lamentations). It is interesting to see that God initiates this. It is not Elijah saying he wants to have another go. It is not Elijah initiating. It is not for Elijah to get ahead of God. Some like Moses try that and they are not very successful. God had closed the heavens until He was ready to open them again. When he faced Obadiah and Obadiah spoke of doubt - Elijah was solid and said "I will meet him today". Elijah is so submissive to God that it is like you are meeting God. He is truly prophetic! "Elijah arose and went". This man is carving out a life of total obedience. He speaks with frightening authority because he lives in a relationship of total obedience. He is sent by God and knows God will be with him.

We want to look like people who comes from the Presence of God and speaks with authority - that is the true prophetic church.

Where did unlearned fishermen get their boldness on the Day of Pentecost? Down through church history there has been a break out of people who know God.

2. That spells trouble.

He earned the title; "You troubler of Israel". That is a feature when the church begins to be the church! It happened with Jeremiah - another authentic prophetic. When he spoke in his day and promised judgement - "Jerusalem will fall". They called him a treasonous man and threw him in prison. But he was just the authentic voice! An authentic voice does not want to make trouble, it just wants to shed light! They are sharing but it looks like trouble! The one who lives the righteous life will be seen as such! The early apostles hit this kind of come back! (Acts 17) So many people are responding to Paul that people start speaking against him. "These men who have turned the world upside down". The Greek word means literally "revolutionary". John Stott says the same word is used of an Egpyptian terrorist who tried to start a revolt! Revolutionary overtones! But it doesnt say that he caused trouble! (v2, 3) The verbs that describe Paul; "reasoned, proclaimed, persuaded". Paul was just being reasonable but the backlash was - you troublemaker!

"God is light and in Him there is no darkness". Light came into the world but men prefer darkness to light because their deeds are evil. They want to stay in the darkness. The offer of light is seen as trouble but that is the thing that you most need! The words that describe the people that charged Paul; "jealous, wicked men, mob, uproar, riot". That is the reaction that Paul got as truth is told! That is how the church is often regarded as these days. We tolerate everything apart from people who feel they know something. The message of hope and light and life is a Gospel declarer! Not trouble! We are meant to be salt and light! If we haven't got a clear message then we may as well stop speaking! He knew what he was saying was true!

Such kinds of declarations will meet with hostility. Paul says to the believers in Colosse - let your speech always be gracious. Always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that is in you. Let your speech arrest the corruption. Speak when you can to stop the corrupting trend. Elijah was the hope of the nation! Not a trouble maker!

3. It is time to make your choice.

Jesus was ruthless with religion! The religious were dismissive of the apostles! They didn't like that! They called the blind beggar "untaught" because he was healed! Elijah had no time for the prophets of Baal. But he had mercy on the people. Never has there be someone who came so near as Jesus. Never has there been someone who stood before the Presence of God. Come from God! He grew up in a carpenters home. Just a child of Mary and Joseph. He didnt come near just generally but near to the ordinary people. He offended the religious! He ate and drank and sat and laughed and danced at weddings! John could say that we handled and touched. Mary could say that she anointed His feet with her tears.

It is wonderful to know a God who comes near. He comes near! "Emmanuel - God with us".

We can start our day saying "Thank You Jesus - you are with me!". "How long will you limp between two opinions?". As a nation they hadn't totally abandoned God. Their very identity was linked with God! They knew their history and the Psalms they sang. Even Ahab's sons later in the book of Kings took over and his name was Ahaziah. Ahab called his son "Yaweh has grasped". And the second "Yaweh is exalted". This nation had a divided heart. We are not supposed to follow two masters. Jesus said you actually cant do it. It won't work! "You cannot serve God and money". Jesus used money as a kind of god. What does money offer? It offers some interesting things. "I will care for you - provide for you - give you fulfillment". Who else offers that? Money is coming with the same offer! And Jesus says you cant serve both. When a rich young ruler came to Jesus and there was an attractiveness to him but Jesus enunciates some principles and then saw right into his soul. "Sell what youve got, give it to the poor and follow Me". He couldn't do it. The man went away sad.

The tax collector - a crook and yet Jesus came to his home. He was so different. Although he was very rich and very crooked, he said he would give back. Jesus said; "Salvation has come to this house". We are appealing about who is the Lord of my life?

The only way you get salvation is a revelation of Jesus, Who He is and what He can do.

1 Corinthians 6:12. The prohibitions of Jewish lifestyle were lifted. That approach to God, trying to keep the old laws is irrevelant. You don't have to keep them! All things are lawful! The liberty of the Christian is that all things are lawful! And then he says; "I will not be mastered by anything". A good job, a nice house, a nice car, a nice wife or husband, a good education is all lawful. Christianity recognises it is Gods world and we feel very at home in it! But we aren't going to come under anyones control. Otherwise we are in danger of something becoming an idol and we cannot serve two Gods. The fact that we are free doesn't mean we become a glutton! Is that how we show our freedom?! That's not being free at all not being able to go without something!

Jesus said "Go" but hasn't He said He will work all things together for good?! What matters most? That is the appeal! We can't live with non-negotiables. Jesus is looking for ruthlessness. He calls for a radical commitment! Loving but truly revolutionary! We are saying "Jesus whatever you say". He said "How can you believe yet make no effort to attain the praise that comes from God alone?". Elijah didn't get praise from anyone but wanted the praise that came exclusively from God. 1 Cor 4:3. It is so easy to be zealous if you get some applause. You want people to see it from your point of view! Jesus modelled a completely different lifestyle. He always kept very clear. His passion was to please the Father. Even as a little boy He "must be about His Father's business" and He carried that to Gethsemane. Under the shadow of the Cross itself; "Not My will but Yours". Jesus had one intent - to please the Father.

For Him there was no alternative, nothing else appealing to Him. Here is our focused Saviour, modelling sonship for us. Equal and yet submissive. "The Father sent the Son". He was submissive so that is how He could be sent. He came to a world that lies. He came and showed us what it is like to be a Son. "You came from heaven to show the way".

You can learn objective rules and not love God. It is about how can I please Him and enjoy Him more and get to know Him better!

"For the joy set before Him He endured the Cross". We are His joy! He wants a wife like Him! "Lets go and do the Father's will". Lets not limp between two things. God is willing to bring rain! Let Him be God!".

Terry then called up one of the CCK evangelists who gave a very empassioned short Gospel message to which there was about 10 responses! This was really exciting! Simon Brading then led us in some more worship and it began with one of my favourite songs from the 1970's;

"Jesus we enthrone You, we proclaim You our King,

Standing here in the midst of us - we raise You up with our praise,

And as we worship build a throne - and as we worship build a throne!

And as we worship build a throne - come Lord Jesus and take Your place!".

It was as though my tear ducts were put onto free drainage! That song particularly was so special and reminded me of the truth that Jesus Christ is risen and reigning! We sang a couple of other songs and then a leader came up and closed the meeting. There were no specific spiritual gifts during the meeting - no prophecies but there was a short few minutes of singing in the Spirit.

So the ramblings of a Mystery Worshipper ...

My thoughts! Allow me to begin with the caveat that CCK is one of my favourite churches in the United Kingdom. I first went to CCK when my home church in Dunstable was rapidly becoming rabidly anti-charismatic and I was just thrilled to find that it was possible to find a fully functioning charismatic church that wasn't totally anti-doctrine or anti-the Bible. So when I share my thoughts - I do so with the discomfort about criticising a family member. This isn't easy for me. But I hope that I will carefully explain my observations - and as always I am open to criticism and points that will enable me to hone my attitudes if necessary.

A. Terry Virgo - Grace and Law?

Terry has always been known as a "Grace teacher". Rob Rufus speaks of him frequently as being so key in his life. In 1984 Terry visited South Africa and it was that teaching on the grace of God that began to make Rob the man he is today. I remember being told by one of the former disciples of Stanley Jebb that when Terry Virgo and Newfrontiers went around the country on the "Enjoying God's grace" tours between the Downs Bible Weeks and the Stoneleigh Bible Weeks - my home church and Stanley Jebb was so concerned at this "antinominanistic teaching" that he began a series on the Law!

But during this sermon I noticed that I have become hyper-sensitive to any mixture of law and grace. And I saw it happen again and again. Firstly I recalled that Terry preached a glorious sermon on "Elijah" back in Bristol. That sermon was the most profound explanation of grace that I had heard upto that point. I had just come out of Sovereign Grace Ministries bitter and badly bruised - and that gentle but prophetic teaching drew me back to not turning my back on the church as I wanted to at that point.

I need to say that I have not seen the same grace in this series that he has been preaching. And I am not quite sure why. Terry seems to be trying to apply this Old Testament passage to a New Covenant period that we are in. At the beginning of the message he stated quite firmly that it "could be God pulling the plug on the UK banks". Rob Rufus would differ quite firmly from that. Rob said again and again throughout his glorious "Established in Righteousness" series that we cannot lay the earthquakes, tsnuamis, terrorist disasters and so on at God's door and blame Him. It is logical - God has given us free will. We are not living and governing our countries by His Kingdom economy therefore we are reaping for ourselves the fruit of that.

Secondly he made a number of comments that again I seized on. Near the end of his sermon he was speaking about; "Jesus is looking for ruthlessness. He calls for a radical commitment!" and an example of that was; "If your hand causes you to sin - cut it off! If your eye causes you to sin - pluck it out!". Terry made that comment and then moved on. Those particular Gospel commands of Jesus Christ are something of incredible sensitivity to me because they were used by the SGM pastor while I was being "disfellowshipped". He asked me specifically if I had committed immoral sin with a friend of mine - which I denied.

His reply was then; "Well Jesus said if you look at someone with lust in your heart then you have as good as committed adultery - so you have!".

The obvious reply to that was; "Well so has every man on this planet!". But at the time I didn't think of that. Rob Rufus has gloriously again made me realise how utterly wrong and indeed cruel it is for preachers to apply these New Testament commands of Jesus to us today. Do we see the disciples and followers of Jesus walking around at the time dismembered? With eyes gouged out? Of course not! He would have become known as a sado-masochistic cult leader! What was Jesus saying? Rob said;

"Don't take the outlandish things that Jesus says in the gospel and say 'I've got to live by that!'. See the context is that He is saying this to the arrogant people! Christians say; 'That is the new law of the New Covenant!'. Jesus Christ is preaching under the Old Covenant that you must not commit adultery but under the New Covenant even if you look you have committed it! Oh pleaseeeeee!

There is no faith in that! We are all dead if that is the case! He was preaching Abraham to the broken and the hungry for God and He was preaching the law to the self-righteous and to the arrogant".

So I offer hope to every person like me whose hand has caused them to sin, whose eye has looked at something that we shouldn't have. We do not need to go for the kitchen knives yet. Our bodies are the glorious temple of the Holy Spirit! No - Jesus has taken that radical punishment on our behalf. HIS hands were pierced for us! HIS back was beaten for us! HIS side was pierced until blood flowed for us!

I don't know why Terry said what he did. I can appreciate his heart is missional. He spoke frequently throughout the sermon about Tom Eaton out in Japan and other Newfrontiers folk who have acted radically and "gone". But I don't think the subtle mixture of law and grace is required to keep that radical fire burning. How much better to go because we simply "MUST - MUST - MUST". He is too good to keep to ourselves!

B. Reformissional? Charismatic? Confused?

So finally we come to Mark Heath's excellent summary as to where Newfrontiers are going. I must admit to spending much of the journey home rather confused as to what I had witnessed at CCK. The atmosphere was very different. The lights in the main auditorium were turned out and the stage was lit brightly. There were coloured lights every now and then sweeping over the audience during the singing of songs. And I can say quite honestly that it was a very professional performance. The worship band were excellent and everyone joined in enthusiastically. But I found myself asking why signs, wonders and miracles were absent from the meeting as were spiritual gifts (apart from a brief moment of singing in the Spirit) and were offered at the end after the benediction.

But it was MISSION that dominated the meeting. They showed a "Mobilise" video at one point and encouraged all the teenagers and 20's to get their bookings in before the 28th February "while it was still cheap". Joel Virgo - the lead elder - came up and did a long plug about the famous Newfrontier churches "Gift Days". The figure that the elders are believing God for is £150, 000 and this money will be going to CCK itself to help their work in Brighton. Scott and I discussed on the way home how helpful it is to present the figure that the elders wanted. Does it encourage a "Malachi 3" atmosphere of giving or a "Melchizadek" atmosphere of giving?

I don't know - I am not a CCK member - but I wonder whether my primary motive in giving generously would be out of a heart full of abundance at the lavish grace that God has poured on me? Or because I didn't want to disappoint the elders and have the excruciating news that after "Gift Day" has finished, that Joel Virgo got up and said; "We didn't make it" = guilt. Would it not be more helpful for the elders to keep that figure to themselves and maybe announce it when and if that figure is met?

Finally I was wondering about this "mission" emphasis that Mark Driscoll and Tim Keller (now Newfrontier favourites) seem to be leading the way in. Taking the book of Acts - what did the early church do? Did they go - go - go militantly to meet figures or did they make it their primary ambition to see the Presence of God come down - and then find that the surrounding community were "added to them daily"? It was actually persecution that split them up and sent them to go! A note about communion - the leader who opened up the Lord's Table said something rather odd too. He said; "If you are a guest or visiting us then perhaps you would like to let the elements pass you by". That left both Scott and I very nervous as to whether we should or should not take the bread and the wine. Fortunately the girl sitting next to me didn't seem to know that we were visiting so gave me the bread and wine with no trouble. But I would have felt very uncomfortable if she had bypassed me and not let me join in. Is that something "Reformissional"?

My love for CCK and for Terry Virgo and indeed Newfrontiers remains unchanged - but I found myself leaving the meeting and wondering where dimmed lights and a disco-lit stage with flashy videos and a frantic drive for mission left a sense of "SUDDENLY from heaven". Does that make me "Neo-Pentecostal" under Mark's definition!? Maybe so!

Speaking of which - I spent a ridiculous £30 on a book I found in the CCK bookshop that looks really interesting. It is called "Apostolic Networks in Britain - New Ways of Being Church" by William Kay and was published in 2007. Both Mark Heath and I enjoyed Andrew Walker's "Restoring the Kingdom" and I am relishing seeing what the conclusions are on much of our childhood now that more time has past. I will post a review when I've read it later on this week.

I have every intention of "going" as soon as I can. I KNOW that I will not be staying comfortably in the United Kingdom for the rest of my life earning a pension and paying a mortgage. I have a suspicion that I am never going to own my own house. I know that I will most probably be heading for the Far East and China and whatever that holds for me. But I have got no intention of going unless the Presence of God goes with me and signs and wonders accompany the preaching of the Gospel of grace!

Dudley Daniel - Father of NCMI

Anyone who follows Rob Rufus's ministry will know the impact that a man called Dudley Daniel had on his life. Dudley was a spiritual father to Rob and continues to have profound influence on Rob - even though City Church International is not part of New Covenant Ministries International. I am always interested in the influences on my heroes because the influences help to shape them become who they are. For example Dr Ern Baxter and Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones both had great impact on Dr Stanley Jebb - my first senior pastor. William Branham had great impact on Dr Ern Baxter. Dr John Stott and Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones had great impact on Terry Virgo and so on.

So over the past few days I have been watching with great interest - "NCMI TV" and in particular a series of interviews conducted by Tyrone Daniel - the current leader of NCMI - with his father Dudley Daniel. They really are well worth watching. In it Dudley shares his heart about where the movement of churches has come from and where he hopes it is going.

Here are the videos:

1. "The Dream".

2. "The Nations".

3. "The Price".

4. "The Transition".

5. "The Future".

6. "The Faith".

Each video is only about 5 minutes long so won't take long but the spiritual truth is well worth it! These videos have also re-emphasised to me the importance of "spiritual fathers". You can catch something of Dudley Daniel's heart here and it also helps me piece together something of how Rob Rufus became who he is today.

By the way - I do re-recommend an interview with Rob Rufus conducted by Adrian Warnock. They discussed something of NCMI and Dudley Daniel's influence and it's a vital interview for anyone interested in Hong Kong and in Rob's ministry.

Terry Virgo on Ern Baxter at Brighton 2004

I mentioned a couple of posts ago that looking into the past is a tremendous encouragement when it's hard sometimes to see clearly into the future. Looking into the past is a reminder of how God moved before and builds faith for how He will move again and indeed how He is moving - even unseen. It occured to me that it's been a while since I've sorted through my video sermon collection. I'm so glad that I spent hundreds of pounds buying videos at the Stoneleigh Bible Weeks and the Brighton Newfrontiers conferences because there is something special about seeing these key moments in the flesh! (What I would give to see Ern Baxter at the Dales Bible Weeks in the 1970's .... )

Here is a clip from the Brighton conference in 2004. I wasn't able to go to the whole week due to work commitments so Pete had to attend alone. However we were able to get down for the final day - Terry Virgo's closing session and then the evening session; "Does the Future Have a Church?". It was an incredible coincidence that I had just completed my first transcript of "Life on Wings Interviews with Dr Ern Baxter" and had sent it to both Terry and to Stanley Jebb.



There is nothing more thrilling than prophecy that is being fulfilled. That look into the past is an amazing reminder that God spoke powerfully to the Charismatic Movement in the 1970's and we are seeing it come to pass in these days. Jesus Christ said; "I WILL build My Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it!". Ern Baxter frequently used to remind us that statement of Jesus Christ's was not a defensive statement. Who has ever seen gates jump off their hinges and chase Christians down a street? No - this statement is an offensive statement. There is not one gate that can stand against the relentless advance of the Church - not even hell's gates themselves!

Memories from the Past ... !!

I have to confess it's been a real struggle to write anything over the past few days of worth here. Writers block? Call it what you will! That being said, I am ghost-writing for a bit of fun. We're dog-sitting for a month for one of my best friends while she is away in Australia so I've set up a blog for her dog to keep her updated with how he is. Here it is; "My Month with Uncle Dan and Uncle Scott and Uncle Barry!!" I've found that a good way to keep my mind busy is to look back to the past and see the goodness of God and what God did and how He moved in times past. It's why I'm so grateful I was able to preserve a massive collection of "Restoration" and "New Wine Magazines" from Dunstable.

Without them a huge amount of material that was Spirit-inspired would have been lost. Here's a selection of interesting articles. The first two pages were a review of the "New International Version" by my former senior pastor Dr Stanley Jebb. It was taken from the "Restoration Magazine - July/August 1979".

Dr Jebb's conclusions on the New International Version were;

"In the reviewer's judgement, the New International Version is a winner. Perhaps the GNB may be preferred by some for evangelism and for new converts, the NASB may be preferred for accuracy and for close study, but for all round usefulness, anyone looking for a new Bible can hardly do better than choose the NIV".

The second page was from the same edition - it was a list of tapes from previous Bible Weeks and you can see that Ern Baxter was part of it with his famous series; "The King and His Army" from the Lakes Bible Week 1975 along with Peter Parris and David Mansell.

The final page was another update page for the regular Celebration evenings that used to take place across the country. My own church - New Covenant Church in Dunstable - featured regularly with it's "All Saints Nights" that many of us still remember as children. Also Terry Virgo in Brighton had regular meetings with visitors such as Peter Parris and Bryn Jones. Awesome days ... but the best is yet to come!

Critics of Rob Rufus Rear Their Heads ...

Rob Rufus has always alluded to the incredible amount of criticism and virtual abuse he receives for unashamedly preaching the message of glory and grace and I have always wondered what these people look like. I was interested in that in the space of two quotes, two critics have arrived. The quotes they so objected to were these; "Rob Rufus on the Florida Outpouring Critics" and "Rob Rufus on the Gift of Tongues". On the one hand I am sure Rob Rufus does not need the likes of me to come to his defence but as these criticisms have been posted on one of my blogs I feel I should at least address them.

"Mark" addressed the "Florida Outpouring Critics" and said this;

"All we have is the bible. It is not about experience, emotion, or what gifts are being presented. It is about the written word of God. I find your words offensive ... Rob Rufus, the apologetic community is watching you and NCMI, and unfavorable reports are coming out from SA and Aust".

I think a comment like this scarcely requires an answer - these "heresy hunters" again and again fall into the same cliches. On the one hand they say; "All we have is the Bible - it is not about experience ..." and yet on the other hand do not carefully and sensibly respond to the Scriptures that Rob himself has quoted and cited in defence of the viewpoint he is preaching. "I find your words offensive". It's so easy to become very emotional about the positions we are defending and I did want to answer "Mark" - but on the other hand I suspect there is nothing I can say that would appease his offense. My only suggestion could be that he stops looking at blogs where he may find Rob Rufus's words. I suspect he won't as these people often feel it is their "Christian duty" to answer such worrying quotes to themselves.

His final comment; "The apologetic community"?! Who and what on earth is that and what on earth does "unfavourable reports" entail. Again I object to the "heresy hunters" carefully coded words of warning that are so frequent and so labourious. It was something I was very used to at my home church and it usually went something like this; "Good men are very concerned". "Anyone who is discerning should be worried". "Beware of "certain" so-called preachers". These self-appointed heresy hunters have taken it upon themselves to "warn the Church" of such dangerous men and yet can offer no objective warnings. "Unfavourable reports"? Where are they? Let me read them first-hand and maybe they can be taken seriously.

Then "Tim" found Rob's quote on the gift of tongues almost as upsetting as "Mark" - maybe more so as he cast doubt on Rob's very salvation - something that proves he is obviously bolder than many. I would not like to take the place of God deciding who is and is not elect. "Tim" too took a very cliched approach to answering the issue of the gift of tongues;

"Rob this shows your true colors, this is new age and is part of the occult. The spirits that you refer to are not from the God of the Bible but rather a twisted version that is based in the occult. The talking in tongues that charismatics often talk about is exactly the same as used by sharmas, witch doctors, hindus etc ... May God have pity on you, you need much prayer and obviously salvation".

I did in fact leave a response to "Tim". Once again the cliched response of cessationists (as I presume these people are) is to point to the counterfeit of the New Age as "proof" that there can be no genuine gift of tongues. This again was something I heard all-too frequently at my home church. "We must beware the counterfeit". "We must be careful of the spurious". "We must beware of abberations". My simple reply is this; I do accept and agree that the Bible instructs us to "test the spirits". But the Bible does not call us to "reject all spirits". There is a testing to be done! If all gifts of the Spirit, all experiences of God, all heavenly encounters, all visions and dreams had deliberately and objectively stopped when the canon of Scripture was closed then why are we asked to "test" and "prove all things" and "cling to what is good?".

If all that is around is the counterfeit then we simply need avoid everything experiential and simply as "Mark" calls - cling to the Bible and the Bible alone. But the ironic thing that these "Word people" claim is that it is the very Word of God that outlines these gifts of the Spirit, these heavenly encounters, these visions and dreams. It is the BIBLE that gives us our expectation! If I am to be persuaded that these things are "not so" then I want to see some Scriptural evidence rather than "dire warnings" of the New Age.

These comments have given me a taste of what Rob must receive weekly and even daily maybe - and he has my fullest sympathy and support and prayers! If I have been unjust in my portrayal of these critics then I am open to correction. In my opinion these two comments are simply "destructive criticism". As my friend Lydia challenged;

"If you find Rob's words offensive then you have a problem with God's word, because he is speaking straight from Scripture, 2 Tim. 3:5 ....talks about people with a form of godliness that deny the power, have nothing to do with them".

The lines are being drawn in the sand it seems, and the only secure foundation we have is the Word of God. Not tradition. Not the teachings of one's favourite evangelical celebrity. The Word of God.

Terry Virgo on the Lakeland Revival!!

And finally - here's the positive thoughts! It was indeed worth waiting for.

Terry Virgo began by drawing parallels to the 1994/95 refreshing from Toronto and this aspect of the "transferrability" of the anointing. He said;

"It was something that could be ‘caught’ or ‘transferred’. People who attended certain meetings became ‘carriers’ of a kind of ‘spiritual contagion’ which subsequently broke out elsewhere".

I must admit this is something I am learning about and owe much to Rob Rufus and Terry for this. Rob spoke in Eastbourne again about the anointing and how transferrable it is. But this isn't a "new" thing. Terry said;

"It would be true to say that this has been a mark of historic revivals. People visited the 1905 Welsh Revival for instance and, on returning home, found that God’s presence had accompanied them in an extraordinary way".

I like Terry's teaching on the "manifestations of the Spirit". It would be safe to say that it is the manifestations that cause the biggest excesses on both sides in any revival. The cynics and skeptics get turned off by them - and I would venture - scared by them. Those who embrace the revival sometimes judge the work of God on WHETHER they manifest the Spirit. Both excesses are wrong. Terry writes;

"What were often referred to as ‘manifestations of the Spirit’ (and sometimes very strange they were) were in reality not literally ‘manifestations of the Spirit’ but the different ways in which people’s bodies responded to the Spirit’s activity. Various phenomenal responses were noted when the Holy Spirit’s presence seemed to be strong. Some fell, some shook and some laughed. Some seemed to happen in an involuntary kind of way; others perhaps were imitation. The pressure to conform on these occasions can become very great".

But as Terry says - what matters not is how great or small the manifestations are or of what variety they are but;

"What influenced me most significantly was not the extraordinary physical manifestations but the extraordinary lasting change that I observed in the lives of people I knew".

It staggers me that so-called people committed to the Word of God - the Bible - seem to forget this clear and blatent fact;

"I was drawn to Acts 10 where the Apostle Peter was in a trance (!) and saw a vision (!) and heard an audible voice (!), as a result of which he followed Cornelius’s representatives who had themselves been instructed by an angel (!). Upon arrival at Cornelius’s house, Peter began to preach but was interrupted by such an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that he had to give way to his hearers who were suddenly overcome and speaking in tongues and prophesying (!)".

And HERE is the fact. HERE is what we must face;

"Virtually every feature in this extraordinary story was outside of my experience – but all were clearly Biblical".

If we are to see an increased mark of signs and wonders and miracles then there's something we must - absolutely must remember. Todd Bentley must remember it. William Branham forgot it to his peril as did many of the other healers in the 1940's and 50's;

"We often imagine that God’s gifts are proofs of holiness or marks of maturity given only to the most advanced Christians to demonstrate God’s approval of their spiritual progress. But this isn’t the case. God’s gifts aren’t rewards!".

This is why Rob Rufus's teaching on the gift of righteousness is SO absolutely vital and such an important foundation to ensure this outpouring of the Spirit doesn't wane and end like it's predecessors before it. It's a gift! It doesn't make you more holy because the holiness that we have is not our own anyway - it was imputed to us as a gift! We are accepted before God BECAUSE we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. If we start from that position, then we will be under no illusions that whatever gifts God may use in us come as GRACE not because we have earned that blessing.

Terry ends on a very similar - and indeed vital note to Janelle's thoughts when she visited Lakeland. It's ALL about the local church!

"What shall we do? We should go on preaching the gospel, praying for the sick and committing our lives to the local church where things find their right setting and safety. Some who testify to a powerful surge of blessing now in their church through contact with Lakeland, say that this is not happening to them in a vacuum, but in the context of healthy local church life where eldership oversight is clearly in place, Biblical foundations are already established and a longing to reach the lost with the gospel is already in focus. Praise God! This is how it should be".

Terry's conclusion shows the importance of experience and how older godly men can teach us so much in the wider body of Christ. I have been puzzled and intrigued as to why every time something different happens in the church such as this outpouring - there is a rush to declare oneself. Some say they are for it (I guess that's been my temptation. I've been so hungry to see God move in power for so many years - could I be in danger of accepting anything just because it's new and it's breaking the status quo that the Church is stuck in? Maybe). Some say they are against it. Some say they aren't interested in it. But Terry said;

"It seems to me that we do not have to take a stance simply dismissing what is happening as a circus or to only demonstrate alarm at the dangers that seem inherent. Nor should we naively embrace and unquestioningly accept the complete package".

I can do nothing but utter "Amen!" to his final prayer;

"For myself, I long for the power of God to be released so that Jesus might be wonderfully glorified in our generation. I often pray the prayer based on the Apostle’s plea that God would grant us boldness while He Himself stretches forth His hand and that signs and wonders are done in the name of His holy child Jesus. I shall continue to pray such prayers and long for the coming of His power and the glorifying of His name with huge respect for the local church and I believe a God-given desire to be mutually dependent and not independent. I believe God will lead us on to all that He has for us and safeguard us from danger for His great glory".