Monday, June 30, 2008

Why I LOVE Conversations!!

I do recognise that for many Ephesians 4 Ministries it is preaching that is the primary gifting and is the reason why I spend so much time transcribing what these men preach and say. However I do have a great interest in seeing these very same ministries sitting down in a more informal context and discussing matters. I remember actually it was a Panel Discussion between John Piper, James Montgomery Boice, C J Mahaney and David Bryant at the Bethlehem Conference in 1999 that was the very FIRST thing I ever transcribed!

So I was interested to find this video clip of John Piper and John MacArthur being interviewed by Justin Taylor;

I must admit - watching this video clip and bearing in mind my previous comments about John MacArthur - I have been considering something that I'd appreciate thoughts and comments on. I still believe John MacArthur is being dishonest to Scripture by saying things about the work of the Holy Spirit. If that's right and true then he is quenching the Holy Spirit by stating so unequivocally that to pursue the gifts of the Spirit is purposeless and presumptious, then will MacArthur still have anointing on his preaching? God is surely so gracious and as long as MacArthur earnestly seeks Him, then I think that he would. But ... it's a case of missing out on the dynamic power of the Kingdom - and not using all that God has so lavishly provided.

All that aside - I am still not going to bypass a chance to hear these two men in conversation. I'm just trying to think through how we can convince Rob Rufus to sit down and have a public discussion and engage many issues that fascinate us all!


Anonymous said...

I don't find any anointing whatsoever in what John Macarthru is saying (or in other sermons we have heard that have been pushed from SG). he's an academic pure and simple, but as has been pointed out - he likes to twist the scriptures to suit his own experience (or lack of).

janelle said...

At first I thought you were going to talk about the EC from your title:-)

I would think that just because of certain beliefs he has that his preaching would not be anointed is like saying God can't use certain people because of what they believe. Even certain beliefs that I hold aren't true, same thing for you, or CJ, or Piper, or Rufus...we can't have everything perfect, all the time, and be perfectly right in everything. Only God is; we are human.

Think of all the books he has written; can God not use those? Think of the people saved, who have come to a saving knowledge of Christ through his preaching. Obviously God anoints him when he preaches, because people get SAVED by the power of GOD as a result!!! People can get saved going to an emerging church (shocking, but true), or people can get saved when the only thing they believe that is correct is that Jesus died for their sin.

Dan Bowen said...

"Even certain beliefs that I hold aren't true, same thing for you, or CJ, or Piper, or Rufus...we can't have everything perfect, all the time, and be perfectly right in everything. Only God is; we are human".

Hey Janelle!

That's a really interesting comment that I must admit got me thinking for quite a few hours! I do think that one of the main problems in the evangelical church is that of arrogance. My older sister was talking to a pastor once and having a debate with him (my sister tends towards evangelical feminism) - and asked him;

"Well how are you so sure you are right?".

His reply stumped me; "I know I am right because I read".

So can we get a balance between not arrogantly claiming that we are 100% right doctrinally, yet humbly being open to learning new things about God and His revelation to us in Jesus Christ.

You mentioned some men there who aren't right all the time - I wonder if we went to them and asked exactly WHAT wasn't right in their doctrine, what they would admit!!

Surely this points to the true and certain fact that all our historical and biblical heroes are MEN. And they have flaws. But our heroes also have the responsibility to stand up and admit they are wrong when the Bible evidence stands against them.

I wonder how open Macarthur would be - when challenged on issues such as cessationism.