Before I get into some of the key quotes he brought, here are the first two parts:Part 1 - Apostles Today! - dealing with the traditional objections to apostles today.
Part 2 - Apostles Mean Fathers! - Independent churches aren't always best!
1. Missionaries or Apostles?
I noted that those who do not accept apostles today tend to make much use of the term "missionary" to explain away those who may actually fit the criteria of modern apostles! However Peter Wagner helpfully distinguishes between the two terms.
He defines the ministry of the apostles as following;
"The gift of apostles is the special ability that God gives certain members in the Body of Christ to assume and exercise general leadership over a number of churches with an extraordinary authority in spiritual matters that is spontaneously recognised and appreciated by those churches".
And missionaries as following;
"The gift of missionary is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the body of Christ to minister whatever other spiritual gifts they have in a second culture".
Wagner goes on to examine the subtle differences in both Paul and Peter's ministries.
"Notice the contrast between Peter and Paul. They were both apostles but Peter was not cross-cultural. He was the apostle to the circumcision namely to his fellow Jews. Paul was an apostles primarily to the uncircumcision, the Gentiles ... Peter had the gift of apostle but not the gift of missionary. Paul had both the gift of apostle and missionary".
It is not enough I believe to use the term "missionary" as an acceptable substitute for modern day apostles. My home church was a strong missionary sending base and sent many individuals out to various countries including Africa and Japan. None of them planted churches to my knowledge and I never heard of them imparting the Holy Spirit to those they were ministering to. Their function seemed fall more within Wagner's definition - that they took their giftings whatever they were (usually teaching) and ministered within another culture.
2. Apostles Must Be Fathers!
Wagner went on to emphasise the function of apostles as fathers - this is key. Once again there is much talk of "apostolic ministry" around today but it is hard sometimes to see those who claim to have an apostolic ministry actually behaving as spiritual fathers. Wagner is absolutely correct - being a spiritual father isn't just about domination or authority but about releasing. He wrote;
"Spiritual parents provide ... (a) parental role of empowerment when taken seriously and exercised wisely will raise up children in the faith, many of whom will be subsequently released for their own parental ministry".
And he quoted Bill Hamon as saying;
"True prophetic and apostolic fathers are more interested in those they are fathering come into their ministry than in magnifying their own ministry".
Reading Wagner helped me to understand that that despite the restoration of the Ascension Gifts since the early 1970's - there is still much confusion which is why "Churchquake!" is a useful book. It seems that when we spend the majority of our time defending the biblical view, there is less time available to develop our understanding of it. Peter Wagner is well positioned to do this. Terry Virgo mentioned in his review at Stoneleigh Bible Week 1999 that we would not agree with everything he writes (and that is true) but it doesn't take away from the use of this excellent volume. Let me close with a quote from Wagner as to what he believes the powers of darkness make of the restoration of the Ascension Gifts!
"How the enemy dreads the apostle! How he fears the full restoration of this ministry! A New Testament apostolic function fully deployed within the Church today would significantly impact the dominion of darkness. Satan knows this and I'm sure all of hell shudders at the prospect of the revitilisation of apostles and apostolic people".
4 comments:
Here are some other quotes about Peter Wagner that you may have overlooked! He's not that orthodox.
from: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/wagnerquotes.html
C. Peter Wagner - Quotes & Notes
compiled by Sandy Simpson & Mike Oppenheimer
NOTE: Direct Wagner quotes are in italics.
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The Ends Justify The Means - Pragmatism
"... we ought to see clearly that the end DOES justify the means. What else possible could justify the means? If the method I am using accomplishes the goal I am aiming at, it is for that reason a good method. If, on the other hand, my method is not accomplishing the goal, how can I be justified in continuing to use it?" (C. Peter Wagner, "Your Church Can Grow - Seven Vital Signs Of A Healthy Church", 1976, pg. 137. - emphasis in original)
Lighthouse Movement
Strategic Level Spiritual Warfare - Territorial Spirits
"Silvoso bases his strategy on four fundamental principles: 1. [t]he spiritual unity of the churches of a city, 2. [p]owerful intercessory prayer, 3. [s]trategic-level spiritual warfare, [and] 4. [m]ultiplication of new churches. Peter Wagner says, 'The most sophisticated strategy for evangelizing a city we have at the present time is Edgardo Silvoso's Harvest Evangelism.' To see how spiritual mapping fits into the whole evangelistic design, allow me to summarize Ed Silvoso's six steps for taking a city... [Step] 4. Infiltrate Satan's perimeter. Launch the 'air attack' of specific and strategic intercessory prayer through hundreds of thousands of prayer houses (prayer cells), having the objective of weakening Satan's control over the unsaved, claiming instead a favorable disposition to the gospel. At the same time begin to plant embryonic churches ('lighthouses') in anticipation of an abundant harvest. [Step] 5. Attack and destroy Satan's perimeter. Begin the 'frontal assault.' Launch the spiritual takeover of the city, confronting, binding and casting down the spiritual powers ruling over the region... Disciple new believers through the established lighthouses." (Excerpt is from Victor Lorenzo's "Evangelizing a City Dedicated to Darkness," a chapter in C. Peter Wagner's book, "Breaking Strongholds in Your City" (Regal Books, Ventura, CA, 1993). The parenthetical comments are in the original.)
Strategic Level Spiritual Warfare - Territorial Spirits
Peter Wagner in a symposium on power evangelism at Fuller Seminary affirmed: "Satan delegates high-ranking members of the hierarchy of evil spirits to control nations, regions, cities, tribes, people groups, neighborhoods and other significant social networks of human beings throughout the world. Their major assignment is to prevent God from being glorified in their territory, which they do through directing the activity of lower-ranking demons." (John D. Robb, "Strategic Praying for Frontier Missions," Perspectives on the World Christian Movement, Study Guide, 1997 Edition, Pasadena: William Carey Library,1997), p.1-8.)
In Confronting the Powers, C. Peter Wagner describes spiritual warfare as having three levels: "Ground Level: Person-to-person, praying for each other's personal needs. Occult Level: deals with demonic forces released through activities related to Satanism, witchcraft, astrology and many other forms of structured occultism. Strategic-Level or Cosmic-Level: To bind and bring down spiritual principalities and powers that rule over governments." (C. Peter Wagner, Confronting the Powers, pp.21-22)
The premise of this book (Engaging the Enemy by C. Peter Wagner) is a) that Satan and his demons are real; b) that there is a spiritual warfare; c) that Satan's hosts include territorial spirit-demons that may be identified by name; and d) that Christians are to engage in battle with territorial spirit-demons by name in aggressive prayer. (Engaging the Enemy, by C. Peter Wagner. (Ventura, CA: Regal Books, 1991), 206pp; reviewed by Morris McDonald, http://www.wrs.edu/journals/jour298/engaging.html)
"Incredibly, what may be the fastest growing technique-driven prayer among evangelicals today is known as "strategic-level intercession." According to its promoters it involves newer varieties of prayer such as "spiritual warfare," "territorial spirits," "prophetic acts," "spiritual mapping," "warfare prayer," "tearing down strongholds," "identificational repentance," and "remitting the sins of nations." (Confronting the Powers, 130.) Explanations of these prayer systems are found in advocate C. Peter Wagner's book, "Confronting the Powers", along with definitions of other methods, including "four ways of praying in the community":praise marches, prayerwalks, prayer journeys, and more wide-ranging prayer expeditions. These, the author notes, "were virtually unknown to the majority of Christians before the 1990s..." (Confronting the Powers, 21.) Certainly, they were not known by God's prophets and apostles! (See The Berean Call, May/June 1997)
“More than any place I know, the most prominent Christian leaders in Argentina, such as Omar Cabrerro and Carlos Annacondia, Hector Giminez and others, overtly challenge and curse Satan and his demonic forces both in private prayer and in public platforms. The nation as a whole is engaged in a world class power encounter.” (Engaging the Enemy C P. Wagner. Regal Books, p 4 6)
Spiritual Mapping - Strategic Information - Identificational Repentance
About Wagner, J. Lee Grady, writing in Charisma, states: "If the World Prayer Center is a spiritual version of the Pentagon, then Wagner is the church's Norman Schwartzkopf. . . And now that his command center is built, he's ready to launch his own spiritual version of Operation Desert Storm. Wagner's military strategy is calculated and convincing: He believes that in order to secure success for the "ground troops"-the missionaries, pastors and churches working on the front lines-there must be an "air force" that provides protection as well as strategic information about spiritual enemies.... "I believe Luke 10:19 in a literal sense, Wagner told Charisma during a recent interview, referring to the verse in which Jesus says He has given the church authority over Satan. "Jesus has given us authority over all the power of the enemy, so I believe we have authority over all levels of the demonic." ( J. Lee Grady, "God's Air Command, Charisma, May, 1999, p.72.)
"Though it still raises many eye brows among evangelicals, spiritual mapping is gaining broader acceptance, as evidenced by the AD 2000 United Prayer Track's Spiritual Mapping Division, which Otis heads. United Prayer Track coordinator C. Peter Wagner teaches a class on spiritual mapping at Fuller Theological Seminary.... Many of spiritual mapping's detractors have less of a problem with spiritual mapping than with its most common applications, "strategic-level warfare"-defined by Wagner as discerning and praying against territorial spirits assigned to a community -and "identificational repentance." (Art Moore, "Spiritual Mapping Gains Credibility Among Leaders," Christianity Today, January 12,1998 Vol.42, No.1, Page 55.)
In 1997, Peter Wagner’s Breaking Strongholds in Your City was published, and also The Twilight Labyrinth by George Otis. In the latter, insight into the spiritual darkness in cities is given, as well as methods to map and confront the powers of darkness. ... From 1991 tot 1999, Dr. Wagner taught spiritual mapping as a critical element for effective missions in his MC551 course at Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Mission. Approximately 800-900 pastors, ministry leaders, and lay persons received the fundamentals of spiritual mapping through Fuller courses. (George Otis and his Fallacious Teachings, Johan Malan, 2001, http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/otis.html)
In July of 1999. C. Peter Wagner, coordinator of A.D. 2000 United Prayer Track, states: "I join Lynn Green in the deep conviction that unless the sins of Christians committed in the Crusades are remitted through the blood of Jesus Christ, barriers to sharing the love of God with precious Muslims and Jews will remain as high as they have throughout history." ("A Walk of Reconciliation," C. Lynn Green, (A.D. 2000 United Prayer Track, 215 Marengo Ave., #151, Pasadena, CA 91001).
“I myself feel that God may be calling, equipping, and enabling a relatively small number of Christian leaders to move out in frontline, strategic-level spiritual warfare. And I also believe He is raising up large numbers of Christians to back up these people with moral support, intercession, encouragement, and material resources. God, I think, is in the process of choosing an expanding corps of spiritual green berets such as Eduardo Lorenzo, Cindy Jacobs, Larry Lea, Carlos Annacondia, John Dawson, Edgardo Silvoso or Dick Bernal, who will engage in the crucial high-level battles against the rulers of darkness and consequently see measurable increases in the numbers of lost people who “turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God.” (Acts 26:18) (Peter Wagner, “Warfare Prayer”, (Ventura, Ca.: Regal Books, 1992), pp. p. 58)
Spiritual Warfare Ties To Manifest Sons Of God and Latter Rain
Peter Wagner is the Head of Global Harvest Ministries with their office in the World Prayer Center in Colorado Springs, USA. He is the leading person in the new movement for Strategic Spiritual Warfare. Wagner defined three levels of spiritual warfare:
1. Ground Level: Person-to-person, praying for each other's personal needs. 2. Occult Level: deals with demonic forces released through activities related to Satanism, witchcraft, astrology and many other forms of structured occultism. 3. Strategic-Level or Cosmic-Level: To bind and bring down spiritual principalities and powers that rule over governments. Wagner makes a lot of point 3 above. He says that the Satan sends senior demons from of the hierarchy of evil spirits to control countries, regions, tribes, communities, residential areas and social networks in the world. Their main aim is to prevent the glorifying of God in their areas. They appoint demons of a lower rank to strengthen them in their attacks. This false teaching originates from the sect The Manifest Sons of God. One of their apostles, Francis Frangipane, said: “There are satanic strongholds over countries and communities; there are strongholds which influence churches and individuals.... These fortresses exist in the thought patterns and ideas that govern individuals... as well as communities and nations. Before victory can be claimed, these strongholds must be pulled down, and Satan's armor removed. Then the mighty weapons of the Word and the Spirit can effectively plunder Satan's house.” The Latter Rain also holds this viewpoint. (Otis, Wagner and the Transformations Revival, Prof. J. S. Malan, University of the North, South Africa, and Ms. Louisa Coetzee, Cape Town, South Africa, 2001, http://www.bibleguide.com/articles/english/transformation/transformations1.htm)
Sentinal Group/YWAM Connection - "Air War"
"The Sentinel Group, led by George Otis, Jr., researched and published a book called Strongholds of the 10/40 Window (YWAM Publishing), which served as a guide for targeting our prayers. When we began we wondered if we might be able to help 1 million Christians to pray in one accord for the same nation on the same day during the month. However, when we finished, we found that 21 million had joined to fight the air war with powerful prayer!"(["Praying Through The 10/40 Window IV: A Message From Peter Wagner" (http://www.ad2000.org/ptw4wag.htm, posted 07/21/99)]
"The book ("Million People Target Areas") helping us to target our prayers for this initiative will contain maps of each of the nations with the location of each of the cities and Strategic Towns within the nation. Many home-based and church-based intercessors will pray specifically for these cities and towns, and it is hoped that prayer journey teams will visit each one of them for on site prayer." (["Praying Through The 10/40 Window IV: A Message From Peter Wagner" (http://www.ad2000.org/ptw4wag.htm, posted 07/21/99)]
C. Peter Wagner was on the YWAM "Board Of Reference" for the 30 Days Muslim Prayer Focus and for the 30 Days Hindu Prayer Focus. (http://www.ywam.org/prayer/board.html)
1. Spiritual Warfare - A laity-driven attack on spiritual strongholds has been moving through the American church for over 20 years now. Spiritual/prayer warfare is sustained, offensive prayer aimed at repentance, restoration and reformation. The movement has recently matured and become better grounded. Key Leaders: Dr. C. Peter Wagner, Global Harvest Ministries; John Dawson, YWAM; Cindy Jacobs, Generals of Intercession; Francis Frangipane, River of Life. (The Big Picture, David Bradshaw, James A. Rutz, http://www.myideafactory.net/bigpict.html)
All Power Is Ours
"Previously, I thought it was power for witnessing and for living a godly life. And I still think it is. But an important dimension of that power had eluded me completely. It is the power that Jesus gave to his twelve disciples the first time he sent them out on their own: "He gave them power over unclean spirits to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease" (Mt 10:1). That word for power is dunamas which also appears in the great commission of Matthew 28, "All power is given me." ... To my surprise, as I look back on the sixteen years I served as a missionary in the Third World I cannot recall that kind of power ever operating in my ministry. I never cast out an evil spirit. I never healed a sick person. I did pray for sick people from time to time, usually the "Heal this person if it be your will" type of prayer. But so far as I know the power to heal the sick, which I frequently see now, was not there.”(C. Peter Wagner, The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit, p.21)
Use Of The Apocrapha To Support Doctrine
"MacMullen tells a story of John the Apostle that is not well-known to Christians because it is not in the Bible. It is told in the apocryphal Acts of John and takes place in Ephesus. Great acts of healing won many of the people in Ephesus. But the power encounter came in the temple of the goddess Artemis, apparently the seat of the chief prince of the demons who had jurisdiction over Ephesus. In the temple, according to the author of the Acts of John, John prayed, "O God . . . at whose name every idol takes flight and every demon and every unclean power, now let the demon that is here take flight in Thy name." As soon as he said that, the altar of Artemis split in pieces, and half of the whole temple fell down. "We are converted now that we have seen thy marvelous works," the Ephesians said. When I was in seminary I was taught not to put much stock in these apostolic-times stories which weren't in the Bible. MacMullen disagrees with that. As a historian, he believes such stories are reliably reported and can be taken as historically important. Furthermore, he finds, they were widely used to bring people to conversion to Christianity. When dramatic events happened like the power encounter in Ephesus, "listeners were and should have been scared half to death," MacMullen affirms. "Divine power had a terrifying, high-voltage quality that split and blinded." He concludes that the supernatural power of God "driving all competition from the field" should be seen as "the chief instrument of conversion" in those first centuries." (C. Peter Wagner, The third wave of the Holy Spirit, p.81-82)
Support For Yongi Cho Teaching Of The "Fourth Dimension Of Faith"
“Fourth-dimension faith is described in the Bible in Matthew 17. Jesus' disciples came across an epileptic who had a demon. They tried to heal him but couldn't Then Jesus cast out the demon and used the opportunity to teach a lesson. When the disciples asked why they couldn't cast out the demon, Jesus said, "Because of your unbelief!" (Mt 17:20). He said that faith no larger than a mustard seed would have been sufficient. What kind of faith was Jesus referring to? His disciples already had saving faith, and a good degree of sanctifying faith. Whether they had possibility-thinking faith I do not know. But they did not, at that time, have the fourth-dimension faith necessary to see a miracle happen. Later on they did demonstrate that faith, particularly after Pentecost. The Book of Acts tells us that many signs and wonders were done through the apostles (Acts 2:43). Fourth-dimension faith is called the "shield of faith" as part of the full armor of God described in Ephesians 6. This is the faith which can withstand the attacks of principalities and powers and rulers of the darkness of this age. It is the only effective weapon we have in the ongoing battle with Satan and his angels. This fourth facet of faith is perhaps the most characteristic element of the movement we are calling the "Third Wave." Most of us who have been nurtured in our Christian experience through mainstream evangelicalism have been taught little or nothing about fourth dimension faith. We pray for the sick with little expectation that the person will get well. We see so few miracles of the Holy Spirit in our lives that we develop theological reasons why we should not expect God to do such things in this particular age." (C. Peter Wagner, The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit, p 41-42) Comment by Sandy Simpson: What planet was Wagner living on? Missionaries have been seeing miracles of all kinds, and demons being cast out (by the Lord, by the way) for centuries. When a missionary, especially a foreign one, is far away from home and there is little or no medical help, they do not pray without faith. But they do pray that God will heal according to His will, and missionaries could recount thousands upon thousands of stories where God healed people without medical help. So could thousands of true believers in the Western church. Just because Wagner's spiritual life was dry doesn't give him the right to trash Christianity in general. Shame on him!
Like Benny Hinn, Wagner Reports People Were Seeing Jesus Christ "In Person"
"The exciting story of how the film was produced, and of the ministry it currently is having worldwide, is told in I just Saw (Here's Life Publishers), one of the most remarkable evangelistic books of recent times. Its author is Paul Eshleman , Campus Crusade executive in charge of the project. One of the most fascinating aspects of I just Saw Jesus Eshleman's analysis of repeated spontaneous releases of supernatural power for signs and wonders as a result of the film. The film is so realistic that many people, Particularly in the Third World, feel they are seeing Jesus in person. And the Jesus they see, of course, regularly performs miracles: healing, deliverance from demons, feeding multitudes, raising the dead, and stilling the storm. The impression they receive is that manifestations of miraculous power are of Christianity." (C. Peter Wagner, The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit, p.84) Sandy Simpson comment: If Jesus Christ is in His glorified body at the right hand of the Father right now, and He has stated He will return bodily to rule and judge the earth in only one way, what "Jesus" is Wagner reporting as authentic that people claim to be seeing?
Prayer Walking
"Spying out the land is essential when warring for a city...Christians should walk or drive every major freeway, avenue, and road of their cities, praying and coming against demonic strongholds over every neighborhood... Even if you don't see instant results, keep the trumpets blowing.. Always remember, God is not slack concerning His promise; the walls will come down!" (Engaging the Enemy: How to Fight and Defeat Territorial Spirits - C. Peter Wagner, Ventura,CA; Regal , p. 98)
YWAM/John Dawson/Identificational Repentance
"Fortunately, we now have a textbook on the subject, namely John Dawson's remarkable book, Healing America's Wounds (Regal Books). In my opinion, this is one of the books of the decade for Christian leaders of all denominations. Only because we now have access to this book has the United Prayer Track or the AD2000 Movement been bold enough to declare 1996 as the year to 'Heal the Land,' featuring massive initiatives for repentance and reconciliation on every continent of the world. This is so important to me that I require my students at Fuller Theological Seminary to read Healing America's Wounds and I invite John Dawson himself to come in and help me teach my classes. Some may wonder what international significance a book like Healing America's Wounds might have. Only this. We Americans are not ignorant of the fact that our nation has gained high international visibility for many things, some good, but some very bad. Now by God's grace many American Christian leaders want our nation also to be known for our deep remorse over the national sins and atrocities we have committed. We want to be among the first to corporately humble ourselves before God and before the people we have offended, to confess our sins, and to seek remission of those sins in order to heal our deep national wounds. With no desire to be arrogant, we hope that if we provide a good example which pleases God, some other nations may see fit to follow our lead." (The Power to Heal the Past, C. Peter Wagner, http://www.pastornet.net.au/renewal/journal8/8d-wagnr.html)
"Reconciliation" - A Walk Of Reconciliation: A Project to promote better understanding among Christians, Muslims and Jews by C. Lynn Green - Youth With A Mission, Introduction by C. Peter Wagner, A.D. 2000 United Prayer Track. Identificational Repentance. (Reconciliation within the walls of Jerusalem between Catholics, Muslims and Jews in 1999). (A Walk Of Reconciliation, http://www.ncinter.net/~ejt/ad4.zip)
Ties To Toronto Blessing
TACF Resource Centre - your source for Christian teaching, encouragement and entertainment. Books, music, audio, video and more! Apostles And Prophets - Wagner, C. Peter (http://server2.tacf.org/TACFBookstore/booktams/0830725768.tam)
Since then Wagner moved steadily in the direction of the Latter Rain and Manifested Sons of God theology as a result of his contact with ‘prophets’ like Paul Cain, Bill Hamon and Rick Joyner. He also made close contact with leaders from the Toronto/Brownsville Revival. Wagner wrote the preface for a book by Bill Hamon, “Apostles, prophets and the Coming Moves of God: God’s End-Time Plans for His Church and Planet Earth.” (Otis, Wagner and the Transformations Revival
By prof. J. S. Malan, University of the North, South Africa, and Ms. Louisa Coetzee, Cape Town, South Africa, http://www.bibleguide.com/articles/english/transformation/transformations1.htm)
Collecting Data On Everyone
The World Prayer Center's president, New Apostolic Reformer C. Peter Wagner, identifies Lighthouses of Prayer as a ministry of the Prayer Room Network, part of their project to create a massive database of individual names, addresses, personal problems, 'felt needs' and current belief-systems — 'the Observatory'" (http://www.wpccs.org/prn_/login.cfm).
Legal Rights Of Demons
"One of the more curious aspects of my pilgrimage into the field of spiritual warfare during the past few years has been the discovery that those who had been talking about it and doing it long before I even thought much about it did not agree among themselves about the nature of strongholds. They agreed that strongholds provide the forces of darkness a legal basis for doing their evil deeds both in individual people on the ground level and in cities and nations on the strategic level . . . . We have not been sure enough of what we are looking for exactly ..." (Confronting the Powers, Peter Wagner, pg. 237)
Dominionism
"The cultural mandate, which some refer to as Christian social responsibility goes as far back as the Garden of Eden. After God created Adam and Eve, He said to them: "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing... Both the cultural mandate and the evangelistic mandate are essential parts of biblical mission, in my opinion. Neither is optional. There is a growing consensus on this point in Evangelical circles. This was not true as early as twenty-two years ago when the Berlin World 'Congress on Evangelism was held in 1966. One of the first Evangelicals to stress the cultural mandate in a public forum was Horace Fenton of the Latin America Mission at the Wheaton Congress on the Church's Worldwide Mission, also held in 1966. Following that, the social consciousness generated by the social upheavals of the 1960's brought the cultural mandate to prominence until it was given a relatively high profile on the platform of the International Congress on World Evangelization at Lausanne in 1974." (C. Peter Wagner, "On the Cutting Edge of Mission Strategy," Perspectives on the World Christian Movement, A Reader, Revised Edition (Pasadena: William Carey Library, 1981,1992), pp. D-45-46.)
Dominionism & Word/Faith Doctrines
"As I have mentioned several times, the ultimate focus is world evangelization. Warfare prayer is not an end in itself, but a means of opening the way for the Kingdom of God to come, not only in evangelism, but also in social justice and material sufficiency." (C. Peter Wagner, Warefare Prayer excerpt, http://www.christian-faith.com/articles/citytaking-peterwagner.html)
Ecumenism - Catholics
"Traditionally, the message of the Gospel in Latin America has appealed to the working class. But changes have begun to take place, and many middle and upper-class people are now opening their hearts to Jesus Christ. Some of this is happening through the Catholic charismatic movement." (C. Peter Wagner, "Look at What God's Doing!, excerpt from On the Crest of the Wave (Ventura, CA: Regal Books, 1983).
"Probably the first Asian nation to become predominantly Christian will be Korea (with the exception of the Philippines which is already about 85 percent nominal Catholic.)" (C. Peter Wagner, "Look at What God's Doing!" excerpt from On the Crest of the Wave (Ventura, CA: Regal Books. 1983)
Experimenting With Signs And Wonders With John Wimber At Fuller
"One of our adjunct professors, John Wimber, who is a pastor of Vineyard Christian Fellowship of Yorba Linda, California, came to us recently with a suggestion that we offer a course in Signs, Wonders and Church Growth. I agreed to cosponsor the course with him, and early in 1982 we experimented with it." (On The Crest Of The Wave, C. Peter Wagner, 1983, pg. 131-132
Examples Of "Wrong Mission Thinking"
"There is much amateur thinking in missions today. Amateur thinking is satisfied with fishing without catching. If have heard Christian leaders express ideas which would sound something like this to a fisherman: (1) God wants us to fish strenuosly for people. He is pleased if we put in long hours, use creative fishing techniques, keep our equipment up-to-date, and read the latest angling literature, but He is not particularly concerned whether we catch anything or not. (2) God does not expect us to keep records of how many fish we catch. As long as we keep working hard, He will take responsibility for the results and for keeping track of how well we are doing. We will only know if we have caught anything when we get to heaven. (3) A smaller catch of fish is usually a higher quality than a large catch, and furthermore they're much easier to keep in the boat. We prefer quality to quantity." Commentary by Sandy Simpson: (1) I have never heard any missionary say that God does not care whether anyone is saved through missionary efforts. (2) Where in the Bible does it tell us to keep records of those "saved" and brag about them to everyone? (3) Is Wagner putting down the hard labor of missionaries? Didn't the apostles do "hard work"? (Acts 20:35, 2 Cor. 6:5, Rev. 2:2) (4) Isn't it God who ultimately knows who is saved and who is not? Can we really know the ultimate state of a person's salvation other than our own? (5) Didn't Jesus say His followers would be a "little flock" (Luke 12:32) who have "little strength" (Rev. 3:8) and only a "few who find the small gate and the narrow road" (Matt. 7:14)? (6) Isn't quality (a right belief in Christ) better than quantity (World Evangelization without the truths of the gospel about the penalty for sin and Jesus' death on the cross)? (On The Crest Of The Wave, C. Peter Wagner, 1983, pg. 179)
False Prophesies Endorsed By Wagner
10 million Japanese will come to Christ by the year 2000; it helped to bring down the Berlin Wall and opened Albania to the gospel; it deposed dictator Manuel Noriega; it lowered the crime rate in Los Angeles and broke the power of demons over Japan (C. Peter Wagner, Breaking Strongholds in Your City, 1993, p.25, http://www.gospelcom.net/uplook/resources/just_the_facts/territorial_spirits.html)
A recent issue of Charisma magazine (April 1999) featured a full-page report that was nothing more than a “Christianized” version of what one might expect from the secular and godless supermarket tabloids. The Charisma article, entitled “Prophets Warn That United States Faces Threat of War, Islamic Terrorism,” reported on a January “distress call” from “modern-day prophets.” The band of 18 leaders, who met “behind closed doors,” included Wagner, Joyner and Paul Cain. According to the magazine, this oracle of impending judgment was further endorsed by others in the prophetic movement, including Bickle (of Kansas City Fellowship fame), revivalist Tommy Tenney, and Vineyard pastor James Ryle. The Charisma dispatch is just one more offering from an assembly of already-dubious revelators. Somehow, the Church just doesn’t seem to get its fill of false and bizarre declarations of these self-proclaimed prophets. Tragically, the Church at large no longer seems to care about an erosion of discernment and a susceptibility to embrace entertainment rather than true spirituality. (Christian Fortunetellers Never Get It Right Either, MKG, Personal Freedom Outreach, 1999)
C. Peter Wagner (Fuller Seminary) in 1989 said that he received a prophecy regarding three-strand cord not easily broken. This cord was comprised of conscientious Liberals, Evangelicals and Charismatic Pentecostals. This cord to him, was the Third Wave. (http://www.pentecostal-issues.org/journal/brownsville/merwe.htm)
We each see in part and prophecy in part (1 Corinthians 13:9), but when the parts come together we see a greater whole. With this perspective in mind the Holy Spirit has been gathering different prophetic voices together to seek the Lord and take counsel with one another. Various prophetic round tables or councils in different regions have been occurring where the Word of the Lord can be submitted and judged. Over the last year Dr. C. Peter Wagner has convened such a gathering called the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders, where nationally recognized prophetic voices have met together on three occasions in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Under Dr. C. Peter Wagner’s apostolic oversight, Cindy Jacobs has been the moderator of this emerging council. Participants thus far include: Peter Wagner, Mike and Cindy Jacobs, Chuck Pierce, Dutch Sheets, Bart Pierce, Tommy Tenny, Kingsley Fletcher, Mike Bickle, Paul; Cain, John and Paula Sanford, Bill Hammond, James Ryle, Beth Alves, Barbara Wentrouble and myself. This report was brought forth at the World Congress of Intercession in Colorado Springs, the first part of December and the 12 points were publicly released at that time.
WORLD CONGRESS OF PROPHETS BRINGS FORTH 12 POINTS
1. There will be a great harvest of Jews, which will begin during this decade. This will particularly affect the Russian Jews around the world. There will be what some missiologists term a "People Movement" among them. There will also be a persecution of the Jews in Russia that will notably escalate during the fall of 2000. This is so serious that it requires an immediate response from the church in prayer. We believe it is the devils strategy to precipitate another holocaust, and that this prayer will help open a window of escape for those feel called to leave and a protection to those who are called to stay (Jerm. 16:15-16).
2. It is important to intercede for Russia for the breaking of famine because if we fail to do it, we can expect an invasion of Alaska by Russia for the bounty of Alaska.
3. A great youth revival is coming in America. Schools will be shaken for the glory of God. Many young people will be drawn to the church as they were during the ‘Jesus Movement’. God warned us that we must be ready to receive them or we might miss this move of God. This means that among other things we must prepare our people not to criticize them if their hair is technicolor and they have body piercing or tattoos. God Himself will change their hearts, but we must not let false legalism drive them away. There is also a new Samuel generation of young children who will prophesy and restore the Word of the Lord to their generation.
4. A new signs and wonders movement is coming which is significantly greater than what was seen in the days of the post World War II healing evangelists. Part of the fruit of this movement will be healing centers which will be built around the world devoted to praying for the sick and casting out demons. (Luke 10). One of the distinctions of this movement will be raising the dead. This will break barrenness off the Church and such great fruitfulness will result that whole cities will turn to Christ and be transformed. This move of God will be so powerful that the church will gather in stadiums to worship, both the church in given regions as well as some local churches which will grow so large that they will fill stadiums for their celebration worship services. This will grow out of what some call "saints movement" in which large numbers of ordinary believers will be mobilized to win the lost, to cast out demons and to heal the sick.
5. The world wide church will awaken to its responsibility to reach and lift up the poor and oppressed as we read in Isaiah 58:7-12.
6. There will be a great move of the Holy Spirit among women. Many women will be released in the fivefold ministry and they will be used in the great worldwide revival, which is coming.
7. A time of shaking is increasing on the earth (Haggai 2:6-8; Heb. 12:25-31). These shakings will affect the following areas:
a. The economic structures: It is time to be right with God because in the midst of the economic shakings the church will arise and enjoy increased protection by God as we walk in faith, in holiness and in purity and as we learn God’s kingdom principles for economics. It is important to invest in Kingdom structures rather than in the world’s economic systems in this hour.
b. Shakings in the elements: There will be an increase in severe weather patterns, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes and other disasters.
c. Government shakings: God is going to shake Government. Rulers will bow their knee to the Lord of Glory and dedicate their nations to the Lord Jesus Christ.
d. The Government of God’ kingdom will be established through the apostolic and prophetic authorities in cities and nations.
8. A fresh holiness movement will spring up in the church in America. If this does not penetrate the entire fabric of America society, God will once again shake the economy of this nation as in the Great Depression.
9. We will see tremendous transfers of wealth into the Kingdom of God through the ministry of "market apostles" (those with apostolic anointing for business and other areas of society).
10. Muslim nations of Eurasia will form alliance with the nations to their north for political and military purposes. Pray that God will keep open the doors for harvest.
11. The church will be in key transition period between 2000-2003. During this period the youth in particular will be transitioning into revival. It is especially important for the apostolic government to be initially established and functioning in our cities by Oct 2003 if we are to see the transformations that God wants to release.
12. The Holy Spirit is placing a special emphasis on the northwest for a new revival. It is God’s desire for a mighty move of the Holy Spirit to fall on Washington DC and that true revival will touch our government.
May the Lord continue to give insight and preparation for the days that lie ahead. May prayer and the prophetic emerge with integrity. Speak Lord your people are listening. (Prophetic Gathering Share In Ministry Together Concerning 2000, by Jim W. Goll, http://www.theremnant.com/news.html)
New Order of the Latter Rain
"The ministry of Dr. C. Franklin Hall was lectured on in C. Peter Wagner's and John Wimber's Signs and Wonders course at Fuller Theological Seminary. Such was the influence and effectiveness of Dr. C. Franklin Hall!" (http://www.franklinhall.org)
New Apostlolic Reformation
"I needed a name ... For a couple of years I experimented with 'Post denominationalism'. The name I have settled on for the movement is the New Apostolic Reformation." (C. Peter Wagner, The New Apostolic Churches (Ventura CA; Regal, 1998), p. 18.)
A National Symposium on the Post-Denominational Church was convened by Dr. C. Peter Wagner at Fuller Seminary, May 21-23, 1996. Bill Hamon said that "this was a historical occasion in God's annals of Church history. It was prophetically orchestrated by the Holy Spirit to fulfill God's progressive purposes of bringing His church to its ultimate destiny. . . the consensus of the panelists was that there are still apostles and prophets in the Church, and there is an emerging Apostolic Movement that will revolutionize the 21st Century Church. (Streams, Rivers, Floods, Avalanches, cited by Jewel van der Merwe, Dsicernment Ministries Newsletter, http://www.discernment-ministries.com/Articles/streams.htm)
In Wagner's new book, APOSTLES OF THE CITY: HOW TO MOBILIZE THE TERRITORIAL APOSTLES FOR CITY TRANSFORMATION, he attempts to describe what the local role of these apostles might be. He defines Apostles to the City as those "whom the Holy Spirit gives an anointing for extraordinary authority in spiritual matters over the other Christian leaders in the same city." While not excluding others, Wagner hypothesizes that the most extensive pool for identifying apostles of the city is among the mega churches. (The Apostles Are Coming To Your City, Ready or Not by Orell Steinkamp, The Plumbline, Vol. 6, No. 2, March/April 2001)
When asked what he (Wagner) thought the main stumbling block would be, that would keep leaders from embracing the Apostolic Reformation, Wagner cites "a commitment to tradition amongst ministers." Wagner states: "I think that some are bound by religious forms and functions that are ineffective and I think in many cases it is demonic influence." (The Apostles Are Coming To Your City, Ready or Not by Orell Steinkamp, The Plumbline, Vol. 6, No. 2, March/April 2001)
In the brochure that I received, advertising C. Peter Wagner's conference in Brisbane, the following was written: "The New Apostolic Reformation is an extraordinary work of the Holy Spirit that is changing the shape of Christianity globally. It is truly a new day! The Church is changing. New names! New methods! New worship expressions! The Lord is establishing the foundations of the Church for the new millennium. This foundation is built upon apostles and prophets. Apostles execute and establish God's plan on the earth. The time to convene a conference of the different apostolic prophetic streams across this nation is now! This conference will cause the Body to understand God's 'new' order for this coming era. We look forward to having you with us in Brisbane in Feb 2000." It was signed by Peter Wagner and Ben Gray. (Brochure For Brisbane 2000, as cited in Jumping On The Bandwagon - Australian Christian Churches Seduced by the Beat of a Different Drummer?, Hughie Seaborn, 1999, http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rseaborn/bandwagon.html)
Wagner is awaiting a "critical mass" of Christians to arise to take over the political systems of the world. (W. Howard, Despatch Magazine, Vol. 12:1, March 2000)
C. Peter Wagner states “I believe that the government of the church is finally coming into place and that is what the Scripture teaches in Eph. 2, that the foundation of the church is apostles and prophets. Previous to this decade of the 80's and the 90's we practically ignored prophets and apostles and now we’re seeing, what I believe is a major reason. We’re going to new levels in prayer. We’re going to new levels in the spiritual. We’re going to new levels in healing and miracles. We’re going to new levels in deliverance of demonic deliverance. And so this is the new era we are going into and I don't know if it is coincidental or what, but its just as we are moving into the new millennium.” (C. Peter Wagner, CBN interview Jan. 3, 2000)
NEW! "We have to understand that the church has a God-designed government. The church has a God-designed government. We now live, this is 2004, we now live in the second apostolic age. The second apostolic age began in the year 2001, ok? And in this whole first chapter in this book I argue my point, I think rather… I hope it’s convincingly, that 2001 marks, is the year that marks the second apostolic age, which means for years the government of the church had not been in place since about, you know, the first century or so. It doesn’t mean weren’t apostles and prophets, because the government of the… the foundation of the church according to Ephesians 2:20 is apostles and prophets, Jesus being the chief cornerstone. It doesn’t mean there weren’t apostles and prophets, it means the body of Christ hadn’t recognized them and released them for the office that they had so that they’d function as apostles and prophets in the foundation of the church. But we now have that, I believe we’ve reached our critical mass in the year 2001." (C. Peter Wagner, Arise Prophetic Conference, Gateway Church, San Jose, CA, 10-10-2004)
Rhema And Logos Are Different
"Pentecostal theologians have made the helpful suggestion of distinguishing the logos word of God from the rhema word of God.... The rhema is regarded as a more immediate word from God which we do not find in the 66 books of the Bible" (Engaging the Enemy, by C. Peter Wagner. (Ventura, CA: Regal Books, 1991), pp.15-16, http://www.wrs.edu/journals/jour298/engaging.html)
Endorses Alpha Course
“The Alpha Course is a wonderful and proven tool for evangelism in the local church... I enthusiastically support and recommend Alpha.” -- Dr. C. Peter Wagner, cited page 2, Alpha News International Online, August-November 1999 (http://www.alpha.org.uk/news/99-08/page2.htm)
Considered Himself To Be An Evangelical, But Coined The Term "Third Wave"
"The Third Wave is a new moving of the Holy Spirit among evangelicals who for one reason or another have chosen not to identify with either the Pentecostals or the Charismatics. Its roots go back a little further but I see it as mainly a movement beginning in the 1980's and gathering momentum through the closing years of the 20th century. I see the Third Wave as distinct from, but at the same time, very similar to the first and second waves. They have to be similar because it is the same Spirit of God who is doing the work. The major variation comes in the understanding of the meaning of "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" and the role of tongues in authenticating this. I myself, for example, would rather not have people call me a Charismatic, I do not consider myself a Charismatic, I am simply an Evangelical Congregationalist who is open to the Holy Spirit working through me and my church in any way He chooses." (C. Peter Wagner, as cited in Charismatic Chaos - Part 5, Does God do Miracles Today?, Copyright 1991, by John F. MacArthur, Jr., http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS6.HTM)
There is no question that a new and exciting era has come upon Christianity in the twentieth century. It started with the Pentecostal movement at the beginning of the century, a movement which continues to multiply under God's blessing. It was joined by the Charismatic movement soon after mid-century. And now in these latter decades the Spirit is moving in what some of us like to call the third wave where we are seeing the miraculous works of God operating as they have been in the other movements in churches which have not been nor intend to be either Pentecostal or charismatic. (C. Peter Wagner, "Signs & Wonders Today", http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/t00.html#thirdwave)
Paul Cain calls this the “Third Wave” (as do Peter Wagner and others). There are various definitions to the waves. “The first wave was known as the Pentecostal movement,(p.16) the second, the Charismatics (p.17), and now “I see the Third Wave distinct from, but at the same time similar to the first and second waves.”(p.18) Although Wagner says those in this new move have not chosen to be identified with the either group, they are joined with them. (C. Peter Wagner “The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit.”)
In Signs & Wonders Today, written by Dr. Peter Wagner, "There is no question that a new and exciting era has come upon Christianity in the twentieth century. It started with the Pentecostal movement at the beginning of the century, a movement which continues to multiply under God's blessing. It was joined by the Charismatic movement soon after mid-century. And now in these latter decades the Spirit is moving in what some of us like to call the third wave where we are seeing the miraculous works of God operating as they have been in the other movements in churches which have not been nor intend to be either Pentecostal or charismatic."
People Saved And Healed Before Preaching
C. Peter Wagner writes in contrast, "People often will be saved and healed in Cabrera's meetings before he starts preaching" (C. Peter Wagner, The Third Wave, page 99, http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/nbbi/vineyard.html)
Dead Raisings Endorsed
No less an authority then Dr. C. Peter Wagner, Professor of Church Growth at Fuller Seminary, School of World Mission, believes such things do happen, "I too now believe that dead people are literally being raised in the world today. As soon as I say that, some ask if I believe if it is normative? I doubt if it would be normative in any local situation but it probably is normative in terms of the universal Body of Christ. Even though it is an extremely uncommon event I would not be surprised if it were happening several times a year." ( C. Peter Wagner, as cited in Charismatic Chaos - Part 5, Does God do Miracles Today?, Copyright 1991, by John F. MacArthur, Jr., http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS5.HTM)
Works Are More Powerful Than The Word Of God
"Christianity began with 120 in the Upper Room, within three centuries it had become the predominant religion of the Roman Empire. What brought this about? The answer is deceptively simple, while Christianity was being presented to unbelievers in both Word and deed, it was the deed that far exceeded the Word in evangelistic effectiveness." (C. Peter Wagner, as cited in Charismatic Chaos - Part 5, Does God do Miracles Today?, Copyright 1991, by John F. MacArthur, Jr., http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS6.HTM)
Wagner Invited To Be "Apostle" Of The Cindy Jacobs "Group Of Prophets"
Cindy Jacobs, who heads up a ministry called Generals of Intercession, is a middle-aged mother who turns into a screaming dynamo when she preaches and "prophesies." Jacobs is not afraid to disobey the plain commands of the Bible which forbid a woman to teach or usurp authority over men (1 Timothy 2; 1 Corinthians 14). In St. Louis she said that she has preached all over the world and that she is calling on pastors to stand up and fight for America. She said that last January she spoke to pastors in Denver and told them they had to start 24 hour prayer meetings. She claimed that God laid upon her heart the idea to gather together a group of prophets and to arrange 40 days of praise. She invited Peter Wagner to be the "apostle" of the group. (CELEBRATION JESUS 2000: END TIMES CONFUSION IN ST. LOUIS, David Cloud, http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/fbns/endtimesconfusion.htm)
Wagner Associations
Brownsville:
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Despatch/vol93_email_snippets.html
http://www.bibleguide.com/articles/english/transformation/transformations1.htm
Assemblies Of God - Main Web Site
http://ag.org/dhm/churchplanting/resc_books.cfm
Toronto Blessing:
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Despatch/vol93_email_snippets.html
http://server2.tacf.org/TACFBookstore/booktams/0830725768.tam
http://www.bibleguide.com/articles/english/transformation/transformations1.htm
Wagner calls people from Toronto Blessing churches in Bangkok to attend "Power '96":
But before that, again, another stream began to converge during the time of the "Power 96" meeting in November of 1996. A group of pastors had begun meeting just prior to that time, with the vision for a city wide pastor's prayer meeting. At the Power 96 meeting, guest speaker C. Peter Wagner highly encouraged the pastors of Bangkok to take part in this meeting, saying that when pastors come together to pray, things happen. There's that much more authority. (What is "Christians for Revival"?, Thailand's Revival Network, http://www.antioch.com.sg/th/cfr/history.html)
Vineyard:
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Despatch/vol93_email_snippets.html
He was assisted by C. Peter Wagner (church growth expert) who wrote the primer for the power manifesto of the Vineyards titled The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit. This is the book which helped launch the "Third Wave" Pentecostal Movement, and is used as a major reference to understand power healing, e.g. the "Third Wavers" who were taught by Wimber that they were reliving the days of the apostles. They were told they too could perform miracle healing, exorcise evil spirits, and raise the dead as did Jesus and the apostles. Timber said that tongue speaking is not for our time. Who told him so? (The Story of the Vineyard Christian Fellowship, J. E. Choate, http://www.bible-infonet.org/ff/articles/agents/112_02_15.htm)
Kansas City Prophets/Metro Christian Fellowship/Grace Training Center
"Grace Training Center is on the cutting edge of ministerial training today. Over the last few years God has been raising up new wineskins for preparing men and women for effective ministry which are quite different from the traditional wineskins. Grace Training Center is one of those new wineskins in which impartation and anointing for ministry are just as important as receiving information in order to meet academic goals. Both are offered in Grace, and this double barreled approach will help you to become a winner in the kingdom of God". (C. Peter Wagner, Chancellor, Wagner Leadership Institute, http://www.gtckc.com/endorsements/)
Alpha Course
Dr. C. Peter Wagner, Professor Emeritus of Church Growth at Fuller Theological Seminary, says of Alpha, "The Alpha course is a wonderful and proven tool for evangelism in the local church, especially in mainline denominations. I enthusiastically support and recommend Alpha." (http://www.goodnewsmag.org/news/alpha_news.htm)
Renovare:
One writer wrote: “Included in the extensive (Renovare speakers) list are Lloyd John Ogilvie, Jack Hayford, G. Raymond Carlson (General Superintendent of the Assembly of God, USA), David Hubbard (President of Fuller Theological College), Jamie Buckingham, TONY CAMPOLO, I. J. Packer, JOHN WIMBER, C. PETER WAGNER” - Messiah99 Conference (speakers) - C. Peter Wagner, professor…Fuller Theological Seminary (Hebrew Roots, The Four Waves & Their Roots, MORE Manifestations, LESS Bible!, http://www.seekgod.ca/more.htm)
Cell Church Movement
http://www.nadei.org/resources/churchgrowth5.html
Third Wave Connections In General
One of the important results of this conference was greatly to enlarge the Renewal umbrella. Since Renewal first broke out in a congregation in Toronto, Canada, many thought that particular movement WAS the Renewal. Others were of the mind that Renewal instead was that which came out of Brownsville, Florida. At last, many of us have come to realize that the Holy Spirit is not divided; his umbrella is large enough to cover many aspects of Renewal. C. Peter Wagner is one of the greatest movers in Christendom today. The fact that he personally convened the conference, and invited certain Renewal leaders to be presenters, greatly enlarged the Renewal umbrella overnight. But even now I wonder how many understand the true implications of what just took place in Dallas. (THE LARGER UMBRELLA, February 18, 1998, Don Hawley, http://www.sabbath.com/donhawley/hawley49.htm)
Ecumenical
One of the focuses of Celebration Jesus 2000 was spiritual warfare. Many of the leaders in the Charismatic spiritual warfare movement were featured at the conferences in New Orleans, Indianapolis, and St. Louis, including Rick Joyner, Cindy Jacobs, C. Peter Wagner, and Larry Lea. The movement practices all sorts of unscriptural things, such as identifying and binding territorial spirits, marching around objects or people to claim them for God, "holy laughter," taking territory from the devil by driving stakes into the ground, etc. (CELEBRATION JESUS 2000: END TIMES CONFUSION IN ST. LOUIS, David Cloud, http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/fbns/endtimesconfusion.htm)
Church Growth International sponsors the celebration of Jesus' birth in Jerusalem. Speakers include David Yonggi Cho, Jack Hayford, Robert Schuller, C. Peter Wagner, Tom Pelton and many others. (Jerusalem Celebration 2000, http://www.ncinter.net/~ejt/ytj11.zip)
Promise Keepers
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Despatch/vol94_pk_plan.html
Another excerpt from "Extreme Privilege," the book now being published and distributed by Promise Keepers at their events. This segment was written by C. Peter Wagner. This is an excellent example in the field of what I've been calling "the assumption of a symmetrical universe," that is, of Christians who make up and repeat for their own purposes stories to support their inherent and false assumption that their "enemies" are doing exactly the reverse of what they do. Notice the insistence that such imaginary phenomena are real, and how these bogeymen are intentionally used to create fear and resentment against most non-Christian spiritual groups. This is not written and published by some fringe figure; this is from a book with the PK logo on its cover, to which Promise Keepers owns the copyright. (Mike Doughney, Soapbox co-host, Promise Keepers: More Book Excerpt: C. Peter Wagner: Satanic Covenant, http://soapbox.barf.org:8280/showthread.php?threadid=6348)
March For Jesus
“I believe the March for Jesus has the potential to become one of the most powerful vehicles for the advancement of the kingdom of God that we have yet known - generating new spiritual power for unprecendented evangelistic harvests, as well as for measurable changes in our societies toward righteousness and social justice ... This kind of public declaration can do serious damage to the principalities and powers of darkness over a city ... What tremendous spiritual power will be released on that day I anticipate a world that will never again be the same.” (Ministries today May/June 1992, C. Peter Wagner - Marching for Jesus).
I must say that, though if anyone will eventually convince me it'll probably be Mr. Virgo, I'm still wary of using the term 'Apostle' when speaking of any modern-day ministry as there as so many words that can be used that accurately can be used that don't carry the easily-misunderstood Biblical implications that one is Jesus' authoritative messenger, and - as was the case with the Biblical apostles - that is able to pen Scripture, comparable only in authority to the Old Testament Prophets.
I do appreciate your blog - very challenging stuff. I appreciate your contribution to the blogosphere.
blessings...
Thanks so much Shannon!! It was exciting to read your comments and to find your awesome looking website! I am going to have some great few hours reading your material! I do appreciate your concerns. A defending of the completeness of Scripture as well as the uniqueness of the 12 and Paul is key - but that's why I like Terry Virgo's observation - that not all apostles wrote Scripture and not all authors of Scripture were apostles!!
Sticking to the confines of the Bible is our guide and not going beyond it but going with it.
Well anonymous ... all you seemed to have proved of your skills and "anointing" is that you are pretty adept at the cut and paste button. There's no skill in selecting all from a page of anti-everythingness website and sticking it as a comment!! Or are you running out of your own original thoughts?
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