Wednesday, August 08, 2007

Uncharted Territory in the Charismatic Resurgence!!

Well today marked a complete and utter FIRST for me which I am so excited about and I just have to write about it!! Yesterday I was really thrilled to get an email from my friend Jesse (author of the "Resurgence" blog) inviting me to set up a programme that makes it possible to talk on the phone via the internet. I know you I.T experts will be unimpressed but for me that is a BIG deal! The programme is Skype - which is free to download! I managed to download it successfully but Jesse and I couldn't chat because I needed a headset. You can tell that I was really excited about it - because all last night I kept having recurrent dreams about chatting to Jesse and even a more vivid dream about flying to the USA and visiting him in Flordia on the way to the Ern Baxter Memorial Library in Mobile (obviously both deep seated longings!).

So I brought the headset today from Birmingham city centre and raced home - and Jesse and I got to have a proper voice-voice conversation at 4pm my time - 11am his time! It was so incredible to actually speak to this wonderful guy! The first five minutes were spent laughing at the novelty of the situation - we both couldn't quite get over the fact that we were talking via the internet! It was so strange to be speaking into my laptop and hearing a voice coming out of it!

We then went on to chat first about where we both live with the help of Google maps! We then moved on to chatting a bit about Ern Baxter and the Fort Lauderdale Five and my interest in them. I then shared a bit about my nursing job and the change for me from Intensive Care to the new children's hospice I will be working at. We then went on to talk about books (a mutual passion!). Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones is a hero of us both so we delved into his incredible insight into the Person and work of the Holy Spirit - yet why that didn't seem to be quite reflected in church life at Westminster Chapel. Jesse told me a bit about himself and his background - where he grew up - the exciting events coming up for him in the next few weeks!

Not surprisingly for any who know both of us we ended up talking in depth about the gifts of the Holy Spirit in our churches including sung prophecies and their place as compared to spoken prophecies. Obviously the incredible grace gift of the internet from God to us and how we are both seeking to honour Him through it by writing. I hoped to get into more practical discussions as to how we can further the Charismatic Resurgence in blogging we so desire - but time as ever was against us and Jesse had to get to work!

I cannot express what a complete joy and encouragement it was to speak to a fellow guy who has similar interests, passions and thoughts like me. I cannot get over either the fact that we could talk for over an hour - from the UK to the USA - FREE!! Truly the grace gift of God! It is our hope that we can make this regular. I truly thank God for the internet and the blogging world - because for one it has made it possible for me to meet this remarkable guy!

What other "Firsts" are in store for us I wonder?!

Rob Rufus's Final Main Session at TOAM 07!

I have finally got round to transcribing as much as I possibly could of Rob Rufus's final session at TOAM 07. It was quite an emotional time as his ministry had really made the entire week for me. Mark Heath has commented on some of his concerns with Rob's ministry and some of the stories he told. I think even Rob was aware that a lot of what he was presenting to us as possible was new and strange to many of us. I liked this one particular quote where he addressed cynics;

"Cynical people ask “What’s the point of that?”. I never ask what the point is – ask did God do it? God knows what the point is and why He is doing it! Some people are more afraid of the devil than of God – the counterfeit signs and wonders are so pathetic! The Bible warns about the counterfeit – they always lead away from Jesus! If you are born again and cannot pick up a devil making a sign and a wonder then that is weird!"

Let's be careful not to allow our cynbicism to make us miss what God has for us!


Rob Rufus – Session 3 – Main – TOAM 07!
Its not just fire or holy whirlwinds coming down – it is God coming down Himself! It is God’s government – the New Jerusalem – coming down among us!

(Acts 9). We are with the Mobilise wild ones tomorrow so really looking forward to that! I was in the room out there preparing for this meeting and was sitting on the couch relaxing – then the manifest Presence of God came into that room and I began to weep. It began to remind me of things in the past. I grew up in a home where my dad was an atheist and my mum was an agnostic. It was a happy home but no faith in God at all. There was no legacy of faith at all. We had a legacy of witchcraft but no faith. Without any experience the Presence of God came upon me as a 5 year old boy and I felt so special and so precious.

When God’s glory comes over you He brings His favour and all His manifest goodness shines on you, and the divine attention loves you not for what you have done or can do but just as your intrinsic value as a created one of God.

1977 surrendered life to God in a Hindu temple and the Presence of God filled the place. After that the pursuit of my life is the Presence of God. Never promote seeking the power of God because that will lead to a life of utter unfulfillment.

God hides His power in His glory – He hides His power in His Presence.

His Presence is who He is! You will find your hearts satisfaction in who He is. Many of the healing evangelists died in immorality and disappointment because they went on 40 day fasts to seek His power. In the New Covenant we do not have to fast to get the power.

When we pursue the power instead of the Presence you will wreak your lives, families and you will become irrelevant, weird and insane! God wants us to live in the supernatural with a degree of sanity!

John G Lake planted 500 churches in South Africa and took the witch doctors business away through the living power of God. People would put bubonic plague on him and they could watch the plague dying through the power of God.

We miss the best of God by being captured by the phenomenon of God rather than the Presence of God.

Acts was the infant church – the baby church. 500 years ago God came to restore the church but wants to take us beyond the power and manifestation of the book of Acts. Not because we are more holy or moral than them but we are uniquely placed to see what God will manifest at the end of time. Out of the riches of His glory He strengthens us with might from power coming from His Presence. He strengthens us in our inner most being and God is able to do more than we can even ask or imagine according to the power at work in us.

It is in the glory that His hidden power comes out.

Want to talk about the timelessness of the glory – to live as much as we know how in the manifest glory of God. The glory is the nature, the very naked Presence of Almighty God tangibly encountering you. In the glory you change! (2 Cor 3) says we are ministers of the New Covenant by the Spirit of life. The Old Covenant was a ministry of death and condemnation. The ministry which brings righteousness as a gift and in the midst of that glory is a spirit of liberty. The Old Covenant glory was God’s view and opinion of us through the law. The people couldn’t see Moses face shining because it condemned them.

(Hebrews 10:14) but in the New Covenant God sees us as perfect forever! We have to learn from the past!

I prophesy this with all integrity - we are about to go into manifestations of signs, wonders and miracles but we must see it isn’t about seeking the power but the Presence of Almighty God.

You can’t live for the crowds and high points – you will never be satisfied with the power. You will only be satisfied with knowing His Presence. Lose touch with the Presence and get more involved with what God does and you will find greed and insecurity and self-promotion comes in and God has to lift the cloud of glory off like he did in the Healing Revivals of the 40s and 50s.

I prayed for four hours in tongues before a meeting and it was the worst flattest meeting ever whereas I have spent five minutes in His Presence and that is what satisfied me. Some people live for the high voltage of a conference but are bored and tired in between. If you live for the Presence – you will become His closest friend, know Him.

It is okay to read about His attributes – but we need to have God encounters. Experience Him – know Him – hear His voice.

[Time of much laughter while trying to read Scripture!]

(Acts 9:1-20). “Meanwhile …”. (*laughter and applause*). “A light from heaven flashed around him” – that’s the glory. God always speaks in the glory.

Many suicide bombers are going to be targeted with glory nuclear bombs in our days and are going to be turned from haters into lovers.

“Brother Saul”. Saul was instantly born again in that encounter in the glory on the Damascus Road.

It is very important when we have an experience in the glory of God we still need to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

“At once he began to preach in the synagogue that Jesus is the Son of God”. Paul says in Galatians 1 – “God set me apart in my mother’s womb and called me to be an apostle”. While Paul was witnessing Stephen being stoned and martyred and Stephen saw the glory of God and Jesus standing giving Stephen a standing ovation – so when he encountered Jesus on the Damascus Road he knew this was Jesus.

In that instance Paul was commissioned and activated and began to preach. When you come into the glory, you come into the place which is the eternal realm – the eternal now. God does not live in time – He does not even live in eternity. Eternity lives in God. Time is a temporary parenthesis in between eternities and when the light of the glory comes you are in the eternal now of God! “Arise shine for your light has come and the glory of the Lord arises on you”. This was said to people whose light had come but they had not arisen and shone. When the glory comes we must instantly arises.

The Cross was God’s secret wisdom destined for our glory before time began. In the eternal realm it is timeless! He is the great I AM! We need to take illegitimate limits off God. He is not in a box! His glory is His eternal now! His timelessness is the glory! How many of you have gone into the glory and thought it was five minutes but found that an hour had gone by? Maria Woodworth-Etter stretched out her hand to make a point and went into a trance. Trances are for us – not the New Agers! Peter went into a trance on a rooftop and saw visions in the heavenly realm. She froze like this for three days – her bodily functions were suspended.

Cynical people ask “What’s the point of that?”. I never ask what the point is – ask did God do it? God knows what the point is and why He is doing it! Some people are more afraid of the devil than of God – the counterfeit signs and wonders are so pathetic! The Bible warns about the counterfeit – they always lead away from Jesus! If you are born again and cannot pick up a devil making a sign and a wonder then that is weird!

The best way to combat counterfeit signs and wonders is to envelop ourselves in the glory!

The true prophetic sees the future and becomes the future in the now. How? By coming into the cloud of the glory.

The Bible says that He can “redeem the years the locusts have eaten”. “He will renew our youth like the eagles”. What will we look like when we live regularly in the glory? Maybe in the glory we will age a bit slower! David encountered God in the glory so often that God began to show him the future. David got to see the New Covenant era centuries later but in the glory David pulled the New Covenant age into his age and so put up a tent and you could walk into the glory. If you did that in Moses tent you would die. David went back in time in the glory because God had given promises to Abraham about what he was to inherit. There was an anointing that God gave that generation – but they didn’t fulfil it or utilise it. It is waiting there for a future generation to pick it up and go back and pull it into their age.

We stand at the climax and consummation of the ages. We need to see that the church must come at least to the anointing of Acts. Look at the last 103 years. The restoration of the anointing over the last century would shock the baby boomers if they knew of them. That anointing was pushed aside by a Pharisaic approach.

The Pharisees stopped others entering into the glory which angered Jesus.

If people bury their talents, God will take the talents and give them to people who will use them. In the Azusa St revivals the encounters fizzled out because legalism came in and corrupted it. The anointing of Azusa Street is still here for us to catch. The anointings of Maria Woodworth-Etter and Aimee Semple McPherson are still here. Find DVDs of Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts – these ministries that walked in glory and power!

William Branham was baptising in a river and a cloud of glory came down upon him seen by thousands of people.

Three pillars to Branham’s ministry – a movement in his wrist that would identify what the sick person had. A video of Branham proved a whole goitre would disappear. Secondly Branham would see visions. Remember these anointings are for us. He would see open visions of who the people are, where they lived. The third stage was that the angel of the Lord would come and stand with him on the platform and would tell him what was wrong with the people. The people who travelled with Branham said they never saw him miss once.

But near the end of his life Branham began to believe that he was Elijah raised from the dead. God told Kenneth Hagin that Branham would die at the end of 1965 and gave it to Gordon Lindsey to lock in a safe. Sure enough in October 65 he was killed in a car crash. Kathryn Kuhlman died of a swollen heart. A A Allen also died prematurely. This generation hasn’t even seen these things but God began to lift His hand off the Healing Revival because jealousy and competition began to creep in and legalism began to drive the movement. They went to heaven but never finished the course. That anointing is still in the earth for our generation to catch.

We need to trust God. We could go on – the Charismatic Movement with people speaking in tongues across denominations but mankind wouldn’t allow the new wine to be fashioned in a new wineskin.

God was pouring out the new wine to give the denominations a chance to catch up with restoration. That wine is still here!

The Faith Movement became a “Name it and claim it” and took people into a world of unreality. The founders were genuinely after God though. God does indeed just want to bless you because He loves you! But that faith is back – God is talking faith again.

In the 1970’s there was much angelic visitation in this planet but cynicism drove them back to heaven.

The Toronto Blessing was sadly called the “Laughing Revival” and Toronto was mocked and ridiculed. Some embraced it but they didn’t have the wineskins in place. There has been a restoration of apostles and prophets but some have turned them into dictatorial controllers. As we get into the glory we will go into the past and restore the years the locusts have eaten – we will see churches operating in revelatory giftings like that. We will see humility and grace and we will steward the supernatural in an unprecedented way if we can seek the Presence.

In the wilderness you are thinking about survival – when you cross the Jordan it is about possessing.

Tuesday, August 07, 2007

Terry Virgo on the Presence of God!

I have been still enjoying sorting through my archives of Newfrontiers Magazines and reading the old articles - but was floored by this quote from Terry Virgo.

"Local churches flooded with the Presence of God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit are the most potent weapons in God's hands for world evangelisation".

Could that be why there is such a constant battle over them? Or what about this quote - also from a Newfrontiers Magazine;

"Prophecy can come as light and love to the individual or as direction to a movement. God leads us by His Presence and His voice. Church life does not have to be reduced to democratic processes, committees and management techniques. We can know God among us, hear His voice and enter into the promises He has clearly made.

Why settle for knowing God at a distance when He has made it clear that intimacy and fellowship are not only available but His distinct preference! He urges us to covet prophetic utterances that will increasingly make us a people enjoying His Presence and captivated by His purposes".

Such quotes just make my heart long for the nearness of His touch! As the song (and book) says; "Just one touch from the King changes EVERYTHING!".

Together on a Mission 2007 Reports!

Here they are ... the reports from "Together on a Mission 2007". There's little more I can actually say about this conference. The sessions speak for themselves!


This session was famous during the conference because people were being turned away as the venue was full. It's easy to see why - the anointing upon the meeting was tangible even through the recording.


This is a first for me this year - I've gathered together all the best quotes I heard during the week and put it on our "Pentecostal/Charismatic Postit Notes" blog.


Each year Newfrontiers produce a high quality DVD showing the highlights of the conference. Thanks to You-Tube - it's available here!


During the reading of the Word of God - Rob Rufus suddenly brought this incredible prophecy - that suicide bombers will be felled by the glory of God and turned from haters to lovers.


Although there weren't as many prophecies as at TOAM 06 - those that were given were of awesome weight. I will be posting more when the full recordings are made available.

Here are the links to the other session reports:












Monday, August 06, 2007

Apostles Understood!

I was spurred into re-thinking through the biblical position on the full five ministries of Christ's Ascension Gifts being available and indeed vitally needed today by a comment disagreeing with Terry Virgo's blog on Apostles. Though I didn't mean for this to turn into a mini-series I finished reading C Peter Wagner's book "Churchquake!". I first heard of the book at Stoneleigh Bible Week 1999 when Terry Virgo recommended it, but didn't get round to buying it. Wesley Owen were selling it off for £2.50 so I couldn't resist! It is an excellent and very interesting book. Some of Wagner's predictions such as the fading out of the term "charismatic" have been proved wrong but there is still some very valuable material.

Before I get into some of the key quotes he brought, here are the first two parts:

Part 1 - Apostles Today! - dealing with the traditional objections to apostles today.

Part 2 - Apostles Mean Fathers! - Independent churches aren't always best!

1. Missionaries or Apostles?

I noted that those who do not accept apostles today tend to make much use of the term "missionary" to explain away those who may actually fit the criteria of modern apostles! However Peter Wagner helpfully distinguishes between the two terms.

He defines the ministry of the apostles as following;

"The gift of apostles is the special ability that God gives certain members in the Body of Christ to assume and exercise general leadership over a number of churches with an extraordinary authority in spiritual matters that is spontaneously recognised and appreciated by those churches".

And missionaries as following;

"The gift of missionary is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the body of Christ to minister whatever other spiritual gifts they have in a second culture".

Wagner goes on to examine the subtle differences in both Paul and Peter's ministries.

"Notice the contrast between Peter and Paul. They were both apostles but Peter was not cross-cultural. He was the apostle to the circumcision namely to his fellow Jews. Paul was an apostles primarily to the uncircumcision, the Gentiles ... Peter had the gift of apostle but not the gift of missionary. Paul had both the gift of apostle and missionary".

It is not enough I believe to use the term "missionary" as an acceptable substitute for modern day apostles. My home church was a strong missionary sending base and sent many individuals out to various countries including Africa and Japan. None of them planted churches to my knowledge and I never heard of them imparting the Holy Spirit to those they were ministering to. Their function seemed fall more within Wagner's definition - that they took their giftings whatever they were (usually teaching) and ministered within another culture.

2. Apostles Must Be Fathers!

Wagner went on to emphasise the function of apostles as fathers - this is key. Once again there is much talk of "apostolic ministry" around today but it is hard sometimes to see those who claim to have an apostolic ministry actually behaving as spiritual fathers. Wagner is absolutely correct - being a spiritual father isn't just about domination or authority but about releasing. He wrote;

"Spiritual parents provide ... (a) parental role of empowerment when taken seriously and exercised wisely will raise up children in the faith, many of whom will be subsequently released for their own parental ministry".

And he quoted Bill Hamon as saying;

"True prophetic and apostolic fathers are more interested in those they are fathering come into their ministry than in magnifying their own ministry".

Reading Wagner helped me to understand that that despite the restoration of the Ascension Gifts since the early 1970's - there is still much confusion which is why "Churchquake!" is a useful book. It seems that when we spend the majority of our time defending the biblical view, there is less time available to develop our understanding of it. Peter Wagner is well positioned to do this. Terry Virgo mentioned in his review at Stoneleigh Bible Week 1999 that we would not agree with everything he writes (and that is true) but it doesn't take away from the use of this excellent volume. Let me close with a quote from Wagner as to what he believes the powers of darkness make of the restoration of the Ascension Gifts!

"How the enemy dreads the apostle! How he fears the full restoration of this ministry! A New Testament apostolic function fully deployed within the Church today would significantly impact the dominion of darkness. Satan knows this and I'm sure all of hell shudders at the prospect of the revitilisation of apostles and apostolic people".

Sunday, August 05, 2007

Seminar 7 - Greg Haslam on Rightly Handling the Word of Truth at TOAM 07!

Greg Haslam's passion is preaching. He is a preacher through and through and an incredible gift to the Church in the United Kingdom. As is often with his seminars at Brighton, this seminar more reflected preaching than teaching. It is a masterful treatment of this vital concept for preachers and teachers in the Church today. Although I am neither, it was a worthy reminder that we should expect nothing less than expository preaching of the Word of God from our leaders in the Church. The seminar proved again that R T Kendall was spot on in his choice of successor at Westminster Chapel.


“Rightly Handling the Word of Truth” – Greg Haslam – Seminar – TOAM 07.

(2 Timothy 2:1) “Endure hardship” – the die hard factor. “Who correctly handles the word of truth”. The Church has forgotten who its true husband is and worse still we have sold out very cheaply to the culture around us. That’s why this letter is very important. This epistle contains the very last words of the apostle Paul that we possess. Bishop Handley Moule said he found it hard to read and study this epistle without a mist gathering in his eyes at the hardships Paul experienced and was going through when he wrote it. These are Paul’s last instructions to his “dear son in the faith”. This is an apostolic epistle to Timothy and Paul is concerned about the transmission and preservation of the Gospel as well as the propagation of the Gospel. This is like a baton in a relay race and the temptation is to fumble – if the fumble occurs the race is over. There is a danger in tampering with the baton – with the Gospel we must not tamper with what has been deposited to us! Some may seek to supplant it. From the mid eighteenth century the devil worked overtime to raise up counterfeit gospels on a whole scale measure. Cults rose up in their many.

“The passing of the torch” is a familiar phrase. One leg of the race is over – the next is about to begin. This is the central thrust of 2 Timothy. Paul was bound in chains but the Gospel was not bound! It never has been and never will be! As yet Timothy – Paul’s apostolic protégée was not bound either and neither are we! The Gospel is free in our hands so we too have this charge to transmit the Gospel as faithfully as we can. That fire needs stoking up. “Fan into flame the gift within you”. Every town and city and village needs fire starters and fire keepers – the flame of the Holy Spirit is needed – lives depend on His fire burning in our churches and in our ministries! Lives depend on it! Truth is reality as God defines it. His charge in this chapter was to guard and protect this Gospel. The main approach of fulfilling this task in Paul’s understanding is that leaders are meant to give themselves to the exposition of the Word of God. This is what primarily pastors are meant to do! And congregations are to demand this of their pastors! When there is no call from our congregations and no inclination from the leaders the church is in deep trouble or soon will be.

The Word must be central because God’s Holy Spirit creates and then critiques a people under the formative influence of the preached Word. You cannot create or critique a people around a pet doctrine that is yours. The apostles said they would give themselves to prayer and to the preached Word. Video clips, liturgical dance and the best sound systems with Sunday dinners all may have there place but can never replace the preached Word. Paul meant that Timothy was to keep and guard this Gospel. We must all be asking “What are we to do with this treasure?”. Keep it intact until we can pass it on to another generation! This term “To guard” is a military term. There must be militancy about preaching! We have got to guard this Gospel – keep it from being vandalised, lost or stolen. Timothy epitomises what all leaders are in truth – he was weak, timid, and sickly!

Paul uses four examples of striving –

1. Soldier (v3-4).

“No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs”. The gladiator Russell Crowe plays has “SPQR” tattooed on his arm but gets so disillusioned he cuts off the skin. These men had to solemnly swear before the gods that they would be separate from normal affairs. Some coming into the ministry want to know how many hours they must serve. 30? Forget it! Think 50 or 60! We will never be rich or climb some ecclesiastical ladder! We are here to serve our commanding officer. We are not here to have a hobby – we may be able to play golf but there is a war on! Hobbies may have to go. Unlike general infantry we are also specialists. It isn’t a question of 40 things I dabble in – Paul says “One thing I do”. A soldier shouldn’t worry about earning a living. That is the government’s responsibility. Others will take responsibility for that. God is our real boss. He knows how to reward His servants in often astonishing ways. Put first the kingdom of God! A soldier must be familiar with his weapons that must be assembled and de-assembled in the dark. We must be as familiar with the Word of God as a real soldier is with his rifle. You may need to use them in the dark! Dismantling a jammed rifle could save your life!

2. Athlete (v5).

“He does not receive the victors crown unless he competes according to the rules”. Emphasis switches to the tough regime of the athlete. This isn’t just about one year of bible training or 3 years at university or seminary. This training is for the rest of your life! It’s not good theology that makes a good preacher but good plodd-ology! Olympians rise very early in the morning and often train while it is dark outside. They train seven days a week through harsh weather or hot sun. The crowds see the athlete running to victory and triumph – what they don’t see is the shivering training sessions when frost is on the ground. This is the minister of God! All this because we are keeping our eye on the ground! The reward for the athletes of the empire was a laurel wreath of leaves that would soon rot! But it was given to them by the Emperor himself. It was who gave them that reward. We have a reward waiting for us from the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Let’s keep to the rules! You can’t enter a marathon half way through! No drugs are allowed – no unfair advantage or foul play is allowed. We must keep going till the finishing tape. “I have finished the race – henceforth is laid up for me a crown”.

3. Farmer (v6).

You need the patience of a hard working farmer in the ministry. Many ask ministers “Do you actually work for a living?”. Authentic pastoral ministry is not an easy ride. It is meant to be hard work and it is our very life! Farmers don’t take vacations! Their life – their vocation revolves entirely around this. A farmer’s work is not a hobby – it is his very life. He must work the ground without the advantage of modern labour saving machinery in Paul’s day. You don’t always see immediate results in the ministry. We are looking for forces completely outside our control to bring results to operate on the seeds we have planted and the Word we have preached into their lives. For the farmer these forces are the wind, rain and sun. Paul said “I planted, Apollos watered but God gave the increase”. We are utterly dependent on God blessing His Word! How long are you prepared to wait? It depends on how much you want that crop! Strongly believe in long-term ministry in churches.

There are two ways to leave the ministry in a particular location – to be sent out or to be carried out in a box. We have no option to walk out because it has got a bit difficult for us.

We are looking for quality crops! God expects us to work hard in this ministry! We have to be impervious to timetabled delays and pressures. The timing is outside of your hands. God will often arrange delays just to test your faith. Sow when it is appropriate or not, when you feel like it or when you don’t, when the people want it or they don’t! It is always open season for the preaching of the Word! We want holiness of life in ourselves and our people, a steady flow of numerous new converts to appear under our ministry. C H Spurgeon lamented Baptist churches where the baptisteries were green with mould and the pastors were proud because their orthodoxy was driving people away. Our baptisteries should be wet from the last!

No one at Pentecost was added who was not saved and no one was saved who was not added.

This must include baptism in the Holy Spirit as an energising power. Progressive qualitative increase. Churches should be full of awe because of God’s Presence among them! These are healthy churches. We can only expect these results if we are diligently pursuing these things.

4. Workman.

“Do your best to present yourself to God … a workman approved”. Here Paul is describing the role of rightly handling the Word of truth directly – as a workman with integrity. Britain is plagued with cowboy builders. C K Barrett commented that; “Beyond agricultural labour is a crop – this says Paul involves serious hard work”. G Campbell Morgan began his working day at 6am week in and week out. His successor in 1914 – John Henry Jowett said he was motivated to rise early because he could not be shamed by hearing the clatter of workmen rising before him to go to the factories. C H Spurgeon was legendary and worked a 17 hour day for 6 days a week and each year come summer he would be facing emotional and physical burnout. He may not be the best model expect in the quality and calibre of his preaching – but he needed a holiday of 3 to 4 months in the South of France to recover. These men killed themselves through hard work. Luther preached an average of one and a half sermons every day. Luther wrote one written work every other day. Teaching God’s work is hard work!
Preaching has been brought into disrepute in Britain because it has been done badly. We must follow the Holy Spirit – Martyn Lloyd-Jones said;

“Your notes will be there next week – the Holy Spirit may not be!”.

There is an archery metaphor used here but there are too many bad shots in the church of God. We could call them “congenital heretics”. Wherever they can misread Scripture, they will mis-read Scripture. It is so frustrating to speak to Jehovah’s Witnesses! But it also occurs in traditional denominations. Have met Anglicans who have been in church for 50 years and not have a clue about the Bible! How is that possible!? Someone is skilled at misleading them and God help us if we are among that impoverished group in God’s church. They are a menace to the Body of Christ! These people make “wars over words”. It is like gibberish! They are deceptive – they have wandered away from the truth and destroyed the faith of some.

Have seen many teachers in our lifetime who are deceitful and deceiving people and some of them are bishops. These people are contagious. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. It doesn’t only rot and disease them but it affects and damages others. Whole churches have rotted away through bad teaching. The state of modern churches in the UK is poisoned and their witness is affected. Their life blood is affected.

“Beyond the hard work of a labourer is a wonderful healthy church and fruit”.

We need the integrity of a clean vessel (v20-22). The larger the house, the more numerous these vessels. Must purge ourselves from damaging activities if we are to be an unflawed vessel. Don’t cheapen yourself by becoming less than what you are! Don’t settle for less than you hoped for in church life because you lack the courage to fight for the things you do believe in! We must shun the contaminants of our culture today. Money, sex and power have taken out too many in the ministry! The last metaphor is that we must see ourselves as Christ’s bondservants (v23). The Lord’s servant must not quarrel. This is a beautiful metaphor because it means we belong to Jesus Christ – we are sons yes, but we are servants also.

Going to Church? What is your Expectation?

Julian Adams said;

"Our Expectation is God's Invitation".

What do we think is going to happen in about an hours time when we meet together? Do we think anything is going to happen? Do we expect God to show up? Or are we hiding behind the get-out clause that God is omnipresent? Do we expect God to distribute gifts of His Spirit? If so are we prepared that He may want us to get up and bring something He wants saying? Or are we in fast-food consumer mentality? Do we just want the worship over and done with so we can get on and hear the sermon which after all is the main reason why we're here?

I love Julian Adam's latest blog post. He writes;

"Intimacy with Jesus has a spill on effect. It draws us into a radical encounter with the Father. You see He takes us into the rooms of the Father! It’s amazing the heights and depths to which we are called! This is not for those who are prophetic only; it is an invitation to all who are called sons. You can live in the place of His presence and the resource of heaven twenty-four-seven.

A place is prepared for you in the father’s house. It’s a place of intimacy and reve-lation. It’s a place of lives changed and destiny fulfilled! You can go there anytime. Jesus has gone ahead of you and made the way open. You can access heavenly realms anytime in any place. He wants to tabernacle (make a dwelling place) with you. That’s the place that revelation will flow from".

What awesome privilidge! The way has been made open - the veil has been torn in two and we can enter the Holy of Holies today, THIS morning! There is a potential for all of us to encounter God Himself this morning because He has promised that He is building us - His Church - into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit! God Almighty wants to come and tabernacle among us! Don't take His omnipresence for granted. There is a manifest Presence - a cloud of glory - that is there and that will come in response to our hunger for Him.

New Wine Magazine Forum on Guidance - November 1973!

I have spent many happy hours today working through the archives of the New Wine Magazine that Charles Simpson Ministries have made available free to us. There are a vast amount of treasures there! This edition of the New Wine Magazine is particularly interesting. They invited Ern Baxter onto the Forum (a regular feature in the magazine) to discuss the vital issue of "Guidance".

I particularly liked this quote which I posted;


And this must be one of the youngest pictures of Ern that I have yet seen! If you haven't visited the New Wine Archives - then I urge you. Don't miss them! History has been preserved and those unique teachers are speaking and teaching again!

Saturday, August 04, 2007

Prom Praise 30th Anniversary Celebration DVD!

I've just brought a new DVD produced by the All Soul's Orchestra from All Souls, Langham Place. The wonderful conductor - Noel Tredinnick - writes (somewhat prophetically I believe);

"I sense that if there is a risk at this time, it could be of too great a polarisation between the different approaches - to see the Christian family fall into ghettos driven merely on the basis of musical taste is distressing. We are feeling now that one of the most significant contributions that we as an orchestra can offer the church is to be a bridge ... a bridge between the traditionalist and the charismatic; a bridge between the discouraged Christian and a renewed vision of God at work; a bridge between the music-loving seeker and the Gospel".

Attending Prom Praise at the Royal Albert Hall was a lifeline was it was during the years when my home church was changing and becoming functionally cessationist. I was shocked therefore to be mocked by a man I once respected at Stoneleigh Bible Week for enjoying a somewhat different style of music to contemporary charismatic music. I have written why I believe Noel Tredinnick is right and we must keep our love of music broad here on the worship blog.

Let us resist falling into "ghettos" of music during our worship!

Seminar 6 - Stuart Townend, Kate Simmonds and Peter Brookes at TOAM 07!


Worship TT2 – “Team Players” - Stuart Townend, Kate Simmonds and Peter Brookes.

Stuart Townend –

Kate Simmonds and Pete Brookes have got unique perspective of going from big established church at Brighton to new smaller plant in Australia. Communication – the definition of “team work” in the dictionary mentions a helpful thing; “Work done by organised division of labour, co-operation together” and note this one:

“Regard to the success of the whole rather than personal exploits”.

Co-operation – we must co-operate together. People who don’t work together won’t make an effective team. This involves listening. People are too concerned with what they are playing and not what the entire team are playing. Phatfish are a shining example of working together and listening to each other. Question is not – what shall I play hear – but does the sound need me here? Does it need me here? If not – may not need to play. We must pull together. Are you pulling in the same direction or are you as a worship team pulling in different directions?

There is an element of sacrifice of individual exploits of what we can do for the sake of the overall sound.

We are part of team! If playing solo then much more needed – but as part of a team, we have to adapt what he does to part of the broader team. Kate got some great things to say about the whole aspect of team work.

Kate Simmonds –

Being a part of church have known Peter and Susan Brookes for a long time – and also shared a platform with Stuart for a long time. Peter Brookes is a team guy and thrives on being part of a team. Peter hates not being part of a team. Gone from a team of eight elders at CCK to an office in Sydney. He is also great at releasing people into ministry. Not difficult to move to the other side of the world because we knew we were going to Peter – a team guy.

The importance of team unity has been underlined by God in recent years for us. Psalm – “Unity … there the Lord bestows the blessing”. Inspired by the Hillsong worship team. Great being in Sydney because we can go over to Hillsong sometimes and love that! But they are so committed to team!

“There is favour granted to those willing to pay the price of unity, hard work and sacrifice. It is costly. It can reveal all the things you don’t love about yourself – it takes such an unnatural measure of selflessness - but the fruit of it is a remarkable testimony to the grace and favour of the King. A fully functioning community of believers covers one another – they make up for one another’s weaknesses and they help one another shine. The Hillsong team enjoy great unity – we build each other up when we come together. It’s an amazing bunch of ordinary people who continue to say “Yes” to whatever need presents itself” – Darlene Zschech.

How do we build team when we come together?

“Success in the Kingdom is building into the lives and needs of others” – Darlene Zschech.

The Hillsong team is full of people who could be individual artists in their own right but together they can be more than they can alone. Disunity is bitter in flavour and petty in nature. Unity is fruitful and fun. We should have a ball together and love what we’re doing.

“People must know our love for them is infectious – that it is our joy to pray for them” – Rob Rufus.

We want to have fun and joy doing this! Really got that from Rob Rufus yesterday.

Last year went and led worship with Matt Weedle at “North 06” and put a band together for this event. We were friends who truly loved each other. We had a one hour rehearsal for the whole event but knew that this would be amazing! It wasn’t musically amazing but knew that this would be an amazing time. Had a picture in my heart that we were of one heart. Our hearts were wide open and totally unguarded. The blessing in worship was just incredible. No insecurity between any of us. God revealed to me a lesson about unity and the tangible power of that as in Psalm 133. The powerful unmistakable otherness of the manifest Presence of God. The language of Darlene Zschech oozes with love for each other.

1. Look for the strengths in each person.

Ask God to give you the eyes to see the gifts in each people. It is gifting that needs to be unleashed. Make mental notes as you see. Time spent in God’s Presence together as a worship team will create excitement as to what God is doing among you.

The bottom line is not great musicianship but if we don’t know what the Presence of God is like; if the church is not regularly in the manifest Presence of God then we are missing our reason for being a worship team.

So disappointing to see musicians just playing and not engaging with God. We want worshippers! We need to be worshipping, waiting and growing in the gifts together and the benefit of this is incalculable.

2. Be Leaders of Vision.

We may be geographically isolated but are still connected to families of churches across the globe and there may be prophecies over us – over our church. Get hold of pastor and learn what the prophecies over the church are. The most important thing about team is that people embrace the idea of giving themselves to something bigger than they are.

3. Run with what God is doing with you.

Be fluid! Don’t feel that you must stay stuck. Set a high standard with what God is doing. Scrappy and lengthy sound checks use up valuable time and may create tensions. Learn to do it right. Set a standard of how it should be done. Even in a small church set standards of excellence. Get an efficient routine that will get morale high and focus clear. How can we do this well and efficiently so that it’s not a hideous burden every week?

Never avoid confrontation but always talk things through in love.

If you let little things slip they are always harder to fix later. Use the principles of parenting to address things in people. As with parenting – choose your battles. A team is in some ways built one person at a time. If we don’t win the tricky ones they can ruin it for everyone. Saw the opposite in a vocal training day at a church once. Greeted with words; “I just want to warn you …”. There was one controlling person ruining it for everyone. It was barren and fruitless and made me grieve in heart. That is the opposite of unity. No fruit whatsoever without unity!

Be careful not to promote gifted people with the wrong attitude until they have the right attitude.

They can be part of team but perhaps not on platform yet. Even if you feel you need that gift right now!

5. Give time to practical work.

Listen to CD arrangements and learn what works.

Great musicians are great listeners.

In Sydney no one has ever given any time to thinking through these things and there is sudden fruit! There must be time working out harmonies instead of working things out on the spot. With church plants there is a period of unsettlement. Everything is different! It takes extra mental and emotional effort and be sensitive to new people so they don’t see you only on Sundays.

We haven’t struggled in going from big church to small church! We wouldn’t be anywhere else because we know God has called us to go and be there and be part of a team.

“We know our life is brief – we can play our part in something significant – we can build a house for God” – Terry Virgo.

It’s not hard to inspire people to give themselves to something worthwhile. Recommend Darlene Zschech’s books – “Kiss of Heaven” and “Extravagant Worship”.

Stuart Townend

Evaluate – where are you in friendships within your worship team? Who particularly needs to be loved in your team? Make a note of practical things you can do to develop and strengthen friendships. Are you making time to worship? If not how can you structure rehearsals to make sure that isn’t the thing that gets cut?

Vision – what has God spoken to your local church over the last year prophetically or in a sense of leadership and how should that effect how you prepare to lead?

How does your part in the public aspect of church fit in with what God has spoken? Profound things that Kate has spoken that are full of wisdom.

Sound checks at their worst are a melee! They are not disciplined. Separate rehearsal time from sound check time. That helps the sound guy or girl. Go through each instrument – let the sound guy or girl lead the sound check time. Get everything set up and then let sound check guy lead and ask each instrument to play. No talking or playing! Be disciplined! Then think about what we can hear in our fold back. Each person in turn should say how much or little they want in their monitor. Then play half a song and re-evaluate. Shut up when you are not playing!

What do we do if the sound guy isn’t gifted in sound? It’s a whole other seminar! In years gone by at CCK it used to be if you could play you were in the band, if you couldn’t even steward then you were on sound desk! It actually is a brilliant task and requires skill. Too often people only speak to him when it’s wrong. He must be part of the team. He needs to hear what the band sounds like and feel part of creating this thing. He carries a huge amount of power! He can make you sound rubbish or brilliant. Sometimes bring in outside people to teach us how to do it better. Sound guy should be interested in music so as to understand what these instruments sound like. Sometimes people are technical but have no idea what it should sound like.

Practical side to rehearsals and how we do them. Set goals. Where do you want to be in a year’s time with your worship team? Long term and short term goals. E.g develops area of prophetic singing. Set a goal for that! Want one prophetic singing out. Rehearse songs for this and next Sunday so that next week we are not spending time preparing but can practice prophetic singing. Get keyboard player to play a few chords and get band members to sing out Scripture. Set short term goals in order to achieve long term goal.

Agree a time to begin. Arrive at appropriate times depending on instrument. Fold back on monitors is important. If you can’t hear it holds things up. Tune up! Be disciplined! People should not be talking while you are explaining the next song. May need to send others into next room to practice harmonies. May be deflating in terms of morale if band don’t play for majority of time while sorting out woodwind. Sort out your hand signals! Use them!

Notes for leaders – set a time to end and stick to it. It is a betrayal of trust to expect all to arrive at half seven and finish at nine when you don’t. Be sensitive to people’s ability and confidence. Don’t be afraid to delegate. Just because you are the team leader doesn’t mean you have to be the best all round. Give others jobs – use the gifts of the team.

Question of relationship between church leader and worship leader. This question always comes up! It is a vital relationship because it is so powerful when preaching and worship go hand in hand. Asked Pete and Kate to speak from their perspectives as to responsibilities to the other and expectations of the other.

Peter Brookes.

Dave Fellingham once said in his book that the relationship between church leaders and musicians is vital if a church is to be effective in worship. View the whole church as a team when you come to worship. We are altogether as a team! Within that is smaller team is the worship team and eldership team. How can you avoid clashes?

1. One key is avoiding a “them” and “us” mentality. Avoid talk of “my time”. It is God’s time! Be passionate to meet with God! Don’t have that sense of “yours” or “my” time!
2. Communicate about the meeting and beyond the meeting! What are we going to do in the meeting? Who’s going to start it? Talk about it! Elder may start the meeting but then worship leader may start. Talk together! Each may have something valid from God to start the meeting. It’s not about the meeting – it’s about life together in God! Communicate what God is doing in your life.
3. Develop a team feel. Friendship – not just a job! There weren’t many people I went to and asked them to come with us but did with Miles and Kate Simmonds. Won’t build a big church in Sydney without their ministry! Apostolic forum can’t believe I have got Kate Simmonds with me in Sydney! Kate knows I am for her – want her to continue to do in what God has given her to do. God has given her a massive anointing and will be displayed more and more in a big church in Sydney.
4. Make sure you are on the same page. Be clear on where authority lies. Ultimately the authority of the church lies with the eldership. The buck stops with me. Be very releasing. Make sure you bring direction – don’t allow drifting! One occasion in Brighton when the meeting produced every odd prophetic person turned up! There must be an element of trust between you. Trust Kate and Miles because they want to get us to God!

I don’t want worship leaders on the platform if they are not worshippers!

Kate Simmonds.

Be reliable and consistent in gifting and temperament. It is all to do with humility. Know the Word of God. Spot a dodgy line in a song. Do things the way your pastor wants them done! Ask them “How do you want this conducted?”. Never serve your own agenda. Love the church! You want the people of God to meet with God. Come full of the Holy Spirit! Bring a sensitive response to the preaching of the Word of God – what is the heart of this message? My expectations of church leader – when Terry Virgo asked me to lead Stoneleigh I asked God for authority needed. You do need authority to lead but that is always submitted to church leader! Authority goes with role rather than gender. There is a beautiful safety net – worship leaders don’t need to correct prophecies! That is the elder’s job! We are secure with our elders in trusting them to weigh what is brought.

Expect leaders to trust – but that is earned over time and over years of relationship. Expect church leader to be a worshipper and to love the Presence of God and place a high value on worship. Sometimes you may see an elder looking around at the church and not engaged. We must have a commitment to the next generation. Bring the young through! Have a heart to see our children worshipping! Our kids are receptive to the Holy Spirit. Simon Brading started leading worship when he was 11!

There is no limit for our kids today!

Simon Brading said others have encouraged him to look out for new worship leaders – he is looking out for the ones God has got His hand on. But when he started leading worship he didn’t have any concept of what leading worship was like. I sang in worship for 5 or 6 years before releasing what worship is about! Get them into the team! Get them getting our heart and seeing what it’s about!

Run new songs by your church leader! Songs we sing shape the theology of the church.

This conference is all about the glory of God. The content of the songs is increasingly “You – You – You”.

Expect constructive criticism. Don’t want “Fantastic” or “Silence”. Silence says to me “You have failed”. Sometimes the people are not up for it. Perhaps we need teaching about being a worshipper but sometimes the pastor may say a gap was too long. Don’t talk too much! Dave Fellingham has said that to us again and again at CCK. Receive those things!

Expect in your heart a move of God! We are there to prepare the worship team for a move of God! Teach servanthood and sacrifice and the Presence and glory of God! It is putting a big picture in people’s hearts – but make sure that is in line with your pastor’s.

If I Could Go Back in Time ...

Sighhh ....

From the New Wine Magazine - June 1975.

Friday, August 03, 2007

New Wine Magazine Archives Online!!


Some may remember when Terry Virgo went over to speak at the Charles Simpson Leadership Conference in 2006. He came back and reported in his "Firstline" that Charles Simpson Ministries would be making the New Wine Magazine available online shortly. I am thrilled to be able to report that day has arrived!

The Charles Simpson Ministry website has had a wonderful upgrade and the Archives of the New Wine Magazine can be found here.

The Archives are not complete yet - the magazines from June 1969 to December 1976 are available - but I am sure the rest will be coming soon. Whatever one's view on the Shepherding Movement or indeed on the present ministry of Apostles and Prophets today - the New Wine Magazine is undisputedly an invaluable resource today and should not be lost.

David Moore wrote;

"...essential for an accurate history of the Shepherding movement is a complete collection of New Wine. The magazine published from 1969 through to 1986 was the principal publishing voice of the five teachers and the movement".

Apostles Mean Fathers!

It is very significant to me that after writing my post last night; "Apostles Today!" - I read a few chapters of my new book before going to bed. It is called "Understanding the Fivefold Ministry" and is edited by Matthew D Green. There is an outstanding chapter within it called "Cover Me" by S David Moore. David Moore also wrote; "The Shepherding Movement—Controversy & Charismatic Ecclesiology" so is well equipped as a historian to bring out the objective aspects to the Shepherding Movement. Whatever one's final assessment of what Charles Simpson, Bob Mumford, Don Basham, Derek Prince and Ern Baxter tried to do - their heart was to bring relationship into church accountability structures.

I was very concerned with one statement that the anti-Apostle commenter wrote in response to Terry Virgo's post on Apostles. He said;

"This said, a ministry may be apostolic ... without interfering with the independency of the local church".

My question remains - is independency such a good thing? Is it biblical that a church should be run by one pastor with a few elders and a congregation demanding everything from him?

Here are some key extracts from the excellent chapter "Cover Me" by S David Moore.

Historical Summary of the Shepherding Movement.

"One of the most controversial and also most influential movements within the Charismatic Renewal in the early 1970's and early 1980's was born out of a similar quest for for accountability. There were many wonderful aspects to the Charismatic Movement; however as with any renewal, it had its share of problems. Believers often went from one Charismatic conference or prayer group to another seeking a new experience or a new teaching. Many of these were not in any church or accountable to anyone.

They read magazines, listened to tapes by the hundreds and eagerly awaited each new book on the Spirit's renewing work. Unfortunately many were left unchanged. As the renewal mushroomed, it was marked by a rugged individualism in some of it's leaders. A number of itinerant teachers and leaders who were regular speakers at various conferences and meetings were not accountable to any organization or network. Lone rangers abounded and moral failures were all too frequent.

Disillusioned by what they were seeing - problems much the same as today - four popular teachers, Don Basham, Bob Mumford, Derek Prince and Charles Simpson decided to band together for mutual submission and accountability. From this association in October 1970 emerged the Shepherding Movement, sometimes called the Discipleship Movement.

With New Wine magazine as a powerful mouthpiece, the four Charismatic teachers, joined in 1974 by Canadian Ern Baxter, began teaching on the importance of the local church, submission and spiritual authority and the need for accountability. This accountability was accomplished as each believer was "covered" in a committed relationship with a personal pastor or "shepherd".

Significantly they taught that God was restoring biblical church government, delegating His authority through the fivefold ministry offices, including apostles and prophets. What was also unique was the Shepherding Movement's call that every spiritual leader needed to be under authority before exercising his or her own spiritual authority.

The challenge and call tapped into a leadership vacuum as hundreds of leaders, many young and untrained, responded to their teachings by submitting to one of the five or a designate. Though Mumford and the other four men originally had no intention of starting local church networks, they felt responsible to lead what their teachings had created and so, the Shepherding Movement was born.

Each of the five leaders pastored a group of pastors, forming networks of churches under their oversight. These networks of churches never became a formal denomination, since the goal was always to make the association relationally based. Keeping the movement organic and relational proved difficult as growth forced more organisation. Many felt the Shepherding Movement had become functionally and practically a small Charismatic denomination, despite their claims otherwise.

Lessons For Today.

The Shepherding Movement admittedly missed many of it's ideals and it's extremes are well known ... Charles Simpson who leads a major segment of those who continue in the legacy of the movement, has said that human carnality won out all too often.

While many were hurt as some leaders improperly exercised spiritual authority, mostly ignored are those who benefited from the movement and those who continue in it's varied expressions today. The covenant movement led by Simpson, maintains a commitment to many of the Shepherding Movement's founding principles of accountability, covenant relationship, spiritual fatherhoodand spiritual family - principles they believe have matured and moderated over time.

What has also been missed in the rancour surrounding the Shepherding Movement's excesses is an acknowledgment that they were legitimately challenging the extreme independence and spiritual superficiality in segments of the Charismatic Renewal. They were seeking to discern their times and formulate God-ordained answers for spiritual lawlessness. Both Mumford and Simpson believe they were catching and riding a wave of authentic spiritual renewal. Simpson commented that "the bigger the wave, the more debris it can carry in".

So as flawed as their application might have been at times, they were convinced it was the medicine Charismatics needed.

I recently spoke to Bob Mumford and Charles Simpson to see what they had to say. Both men, older now and tempered by time and trial, are humbled by the realisation that they are the only two living members of the original five Shepherding leaders. Mumford and Simpson having felt the pain of criticism were cautious in their assessments but very willing to share insights that might serve a new generation of leaders.

1. Seeing a spiritual truth is never enough.

According to Charles Simpson, "Believing you see something is one thing but building something with it is another matter". He thinks he and the other four leaders had a "naive enthusiasm" and did not fully understand what would happen once they started teaching on submission and accountability. "If you teach something, people will come to you for it", he recalls.

The momentum their teachings created caused the movement to grow beyond their ability to manage. They simply had not planned on the response they provoked.

2. Relationships must be authentic.

Both Mumford and Simpson point out how easy it is to say that something is "relational" and yet how hard it is to make those relationships truly authentic. Many apostolic networks make the claim they are based on relationships and thereby they are accountable to one another ... Mumford contends that "relationships must be more than functional and superficial if there is to be any kind of real accountability".

3. Structures alone will not produce accountability.

The Shepherding Movement had personal pastors, cell groups, church councils, regional presbyteries, pastor's networks and an apostolic council, all with the aim of producing mature disciples of Jesus but these structures alone could not produce the desired results.

Accountability was something that fundamentally could not be enforced or coerced - it was voluntary and an outflow of personal integrity.

4. Titles Can Be Misleading.

Simpson and Mumford believe there is a need to make sure leaders are manifesting the works of an apostle before being labelled one and that they are also evaluated by biblical standards. They caution against pride that easily follows being given title and privilidge. Simpson once said; "If you are treated like a king, before long you start thinking you are one". Humility and servanthood come before title and position.

5. Remember the human condition.

No matter one's theological position on the degree on the degree of man's depravity, it must be admitted we are deeply flawed by Adam's fall. Simpson has lamented the "carnality that power and resources brought out in some of us". Mumford wishes he had better listened to critics even when they acted uncharitably.

Self-righteousness and self-justification may too easily be excused and garbed in religious terms. Current leaders need to honestly admit their fallibility and potential for missing the mark. This is why accountability is so essential.

Both Mumford and Simpson have learned from their past and so can we ... We need present-day apostles and the New Apostolic Reformation is a genuine expression of God's renewing work in His Church. However as Simpson and Mumford note, there is great danger in triumphalism - seeing one's movement as the "cutting edge" of what God is doing today.

Accountability must be more than a circle of like-minded friends. We are accountable to God, to Scripture and to the Christian story over the centuries. We are accountable to those in this "century of the Holy Spirit" which stretches back to Azusa Street.

Thursday, August 02, 2007

Apostles Today!

The danger in enjoying restored truths is that they are taken for granted. I have grown up all my life in an atmosphere where Christ's Ascension Gifts (the Ephesians 4 Ministries) were welcomed and only really had to debate the issue when my home church changed it's fundamental doctrines on the Holy Spirit - this included the Ascension Gifts. The official stance of the church was the traditional evangelical view that the role of apostle and prophet was temporary and had ceased whereas the other three continued. Since leaving that environment I have once again begun taking the presence of the Ascension Gifts for granted. This is especially true in an atmosphere like at Brighton where they are so wonderfully active and present.

However the following comment was left on a blog in response to Terry Virgo's recent blog post on Apostles. It is a worthy reminder that we must be 100% biblical in why we believe what we believe.

Here is the comment;

"Terms are important here. Big ‘A’ and little ‘a’ is important.

Sloppy terminology > unbiblical expectations of ministers > poor church government > ruined churches > dishonoured Christ.

Clearly no one today is appointed eyewitness of the resurrected Christ, nor has anyone been personally commissioned or empowered to attest that calling. (e.g. No one today performs miracles in the way Paul/Peter did.) No one is authorised to write Scripture today or have revelation equal to it. Obviously the unrepeatable foundation of the BIG ‘C’ Church (1Cor.3:10, Eph.2:20) cannot be laid again. Every minister today builds on that foundation and should “take heed how he builds on it.”

For these reasons I do not use the term Apostle of ministers today. My caution to those who do would take Paul’s example: 2Cor.10:13, “We, however, will not boast beyond measure, but within the limits of the sphere which God appointed us”. While I desire to be as much like Paul as possible, I believe God has set different limits to my sphere today. We should accept that. Eph.4:7 “But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”
This said, a ministry may be apostolic (by church-planting, input to many churches etc.) without interfering with the independency of the local church. The obvious people today are missionaries (cf. missio.Latin, apostello.Grk) who should be church-planting, training etc. But, we should take note to whom the Apostles devolved their authority (see Tit.1:5, 1Tim.3, Acts 14:23). The Apostles passed on the baton to elders responsible for each independent assembly.

Simple clarification of terms helps lessen the perceived Reformed/Charismatic divide.

Now… Prophets today…Oh don’t get me started!"

Now I must make it clear that the commenter is a man I knew from my home church and respected - he is a church pastor - so I don't write this lightly. To disagree with another fellow Christian isn't something that should, I think, be done lightly! Wayne Grudem presents three excellent reasons as to why boundaries should be held and debates fought;

"1. False teaching harms the Church. 2. If false teaching is not stopped it spreads. 3. If false teaching is not stopped, we will waste time and energy in endless controversies rather than doing valuable Kingdom work".

So on the one hand we have this commenter arguing against the presence of apostles today - yet on the other hand John Hosier argued passionately for them in his seminar at Brighton;

"When nothing is happening – don’t let nothing happen. Fight! You need Ephesians 4 Ministry that will stir and rally the people. In a time of stagnation, the Ephesians 4 Ministries will be a major weapon of attack against stagnation. You may need to call in apostolic ministry to lay some foundation of grace. You may need prophetic ministry in the church to awaken vision again".

Both the commenter and John Hosier clearly and obviously long for Christ to be honoured and clearly therefore neither are false teachers - yet neither can both be right. I think the key principle that Wayne Grudem laid down for the arguing of apostles and indeed Christ's Ascension Gifts today is the principle of which position will most forward the advance of the Kingdom of God. Like John Hosier, I believe the Ascension Gifts and their spread throughout the church today are essential. I am going to draw attention to others who have argued this far more adequately and ably than I.

1. The Complete Canon.

The commenter's primary concern is the supremacy of the Word of God (quite rightly). He said;

"No one is authorised to write Scripture today or have revelation equal to it".

In his contributing chapter to the volume; "Preach the Word!" - Terry Virgo is well aware of that traditional argument and wrote;

"So often the chief reason that is given as to why there can no longer be apostles in the Church today is that the Scriptures are complete and the fear is that anyone named an apostle would wish to add to the Scriptures ... Although (that view) is motivated by a proper desire to keep the doctrine true and pure ... it fails to look at the whole picture. It concentrates solely on the authority of Scripture and fails to take the role of the apostle into account".

Note this in particular:

"Since not all the NT apostles wrote Scripture and since not all the authors of the Bible were apostles it is a mistake to associate the two so closely".

2. Foundations Laid Once or Ongoing?

The commenter's next issue is with one of foundations. He believes the foundation laid by apostles and prophets was laid once and for all. He said;

"Obviously the unrepeatable foundation of the BIG ‘C’ Church (1Cor.3:10, Eph.2:20) cannot be laid again. Every minister today builds on that foundation and should “take heed how he builds on it.”

Terry Virgo was aware of this traditional argument also and wrote;

"We need to expand our thinking on the work of the apostle ... His purpose was to extend the New Testament community ... the apostles literally laid a foundation in each of the places to which they were sent by the Holy Spirit. Yes the apostles laid the foundations of the universal chcurch at the beginning but the work goes on".

"The dynamic ongoing ministry of apostles is to lay foundations".

Terry then gave a specific example from Acts which will be persuasive based on whether or not you believe that the narrative teaching in the book of Acts has relevance for us today. Jesse Phillip's paper carries vital arguments to this respect.

"In Acts 8 when, as a result of the work of the evangelist Philip, people were saved in Samaria, the apostles did not just applaud another evangelistic breakthrough and then leave the fledgling church to establish itself. On the contrary their response was to send Peter and John down to Samaria where they laid hands on the new believers so that they received the Holy Spirit".

Terry concludes;

"Such apostolic involvement indicates I believe that not only did the apostles lay the foundation for the universal Church but that they needed to lay a foundation for the new communities of believers that were coming into being".

3. Is 'Independent' Really Such a Good Thing?

The commenter made a point which I believe is key to much of the present and traditional suspicion about apostles today. He said; "This said, a ministry may be apostolic ... without interfering with the independency of the local church". Key word - Independency. The traditional underlying fear of the Roman Catholic church is clearly still alive and well. Yet once again - why should we agree and submit to losing the genuine biblical principles because of fear of the counterfeit?

4. "Until".

Ephesians 4 clearly carries the key to our understanding of the Ascension Gifts or the Ephesians 4 Ministries and as to when they were given, how they were given and why they were given. Greg Haslam makes a valuable comment on this (also from "Preach the Word!").

"Please note the time reference in Ephesians 4:13 - "Until". This indicates Christ's continous donation of them to His Church until the climax of history and not their cessation at a much earlier time as some have maintained ... these goals have not been attained yet so the means must still be available".

In conclusion I refer back to John Hosier's passioned plea from his seminar at "Together on a Mission". Some may see Christ's Ascension Gifts as an optional secondary issue to the Gospel and refuse to discuss it for fear of offending cessationist brethren. Some may take pride in their doctrinal orthodoxy by arguing (as this man has) against their existence and mocking the excesses of those who believe in them. But I am struck by the word "Gift". A gift is an act of pure grace from a loving heavenly Father to children He loves. Of course a gift may be rejected. But I would far rather receive everything the Bible says is offered than risk grieving the Holy Spirit and the ascended glorified Christ who gives them to His Church that we may go on to maturity.
It strikes me that this traditional, familiar argument presented here is fear-based. Fear of error. Fear of excess. Fear of unorthodoxy. How much better to have a view that is vision-based, Kingdom-based, nations-based! If Ephesians 4 Ministries or the Ascension Gifts will help my church go onto maturity which means advancing across nations with the glorious Gospel then I want them in full measure!

Sunday, July 29, 2007

A Week's Retreat in Kington St Michael!

I haven't forgotten the blog or the "Together on a Mission" seminar notes and summaries - but I am currently spending a delightful week with one of my dearest friends in the charming village of Kington St Michael - and combining it with my community nursing job in Bristol! I was walking back into the village this morning and contemplating the wonders of creation. I do agree fervently with Dave Stroud's message to Mobilise - that cities are high on God's agenda. But there's nothing like a real country village to make one appreciate what God has made! I've never lived in a village before - always being a city boy - and the pace of life is quite wonderful!

Being here has meant that I can read lots and also by default gather some quotes for the "Pentecostal/Charismatic Post-it Notes" blog as my fellow writers seem to have deserted me ;)

Here's one I liked;

"We honour the Spirit by releasing Him" - Dr R T Kendall.

Here's one I didn't;

"Here then is my own definition of worship - it is the response to and/or preparation for the preached Word" - Dr R T Kendall.

And here's one that I'm seriously thinking through and not quite sure about;

"Submission to authority is not based on the personal character of the man in authority nor is it based on how justly or unjustly the authority is applied. Our submission is to God who gives the authority" - Don Basham.

Normal blogging to resume on Wednesday! I'm off to walk my friend's dog in the wonderful countryside and enjoy the rare sun!